47
   

Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 01:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Okay, 2 more weeks and then the charade is over. I think I can wait that long.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 02:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
https://i.imgur.com/EJs4qqLl.jpg



This is from the Press Association [via The Guardian (blog)] , explaining what four leading European papers are saying about last night’s decision.

The centre-left leaning French paper Liberation points out that the current summit was originally intended to be the final goodbye.

In a piece headlined “Brexit: The British circus moves to Brussels”, the paper writes: “This council should have seen the ratification of Britain’s exit from the EU with an agreement reached after two-and-a-half years of negotiations.

“We should have nicely said goodbye, perhaps even with a little tear.

“Instead, irritation, tiredness and a clear sense of being fed-up was felt behind the statements given by members of the commission.”

Le Figaro, at the other end of the political spectrum, reports that Europeans are tired of the twists and turns from London.

The paper writes: “No-one has any illusions about Theresa May’s ability to win a vote in the House of Commons in the coming days.

“What to do in case of failure ... Come back to Brussels for a new summit next week? There is not a shadow of a doubt.

“The 27, whose confidence in Theresa May has evaporated but who have not given up the idea of an orderly exit with the United Kingdom, fear this prospect. They fear being trapped again in a new request for a delay.”

In Germany, Die Welt tops its coverage of events in Brussels with the headline “Now the EU states determine British politics”, while Spain’s El Pais writes that the ball remains in the UK’s court.

“The weight of the dramatic decision to choose between a long extension or a brutal and chaotic Brexit falls squarely in London,” it says.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 02:35 am
@Walter Hinteler,
According to Reuters, Emmanuel Macron, the French president, told fellow EU leaders during the EU27 discussion (after Theresa May had left the room) that he thought May had only a 10% chance of winning the vote next week before he arrived at the summit. After hearing her address the meeting, he was revising that down to 5%, he said.
Donald Tusk, the European commission president, said Macron was being "very optimistic".

Five percent? EU leaders doubt May's Brexit vote chances
0 Replies
 
eurocelticyankee
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 02:39 am
@Olivier5,
In your dreams it's over. Her third attempt at passing her deal will fail. That leaves either a no deal crash out or an extension. MP's have already voted against a no deal so we're looking at a longer extension which will mean Britain will have to take part in upcoming European elections.
On top of that there's more and more calls for a border poll in the North of Ireland. Not to forget if and when the UK leave the EU Scotland will want another independence vote.
This farce will go on for a good while yet and all the time we're watching Brexit we're taking our eye off the ball and the rise of the far right in the rest of Europe.
That's a bigger threat to Europe than Brexit.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 02:43 am
@eurocelticyankee,
The UK will leave in three weeks with no deal unless MPs back May or decide plan B (or C or D or ...).
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 02:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
DUBLIN (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Theresa May is “very, very unlikely” to win support in parliament for the Brexit divorce deal she agreed with the European Union, a eurosceptic member of her minority government said on Friday.

“The way the parliamentary mess looks at the moment, I would say it’s very, very unlikely,” Craig MacKinlay told Irish national broadcaster RTE when asked whether May could get the deal approved in a third parliamentary vote.

“That’s not just because of the ERG group (of Conservative eurosceptics). If we look at the new independent group who have been wholly opposed to this. You’ve got about 15 Conservative members on Conservative benches who are opposed to this, those who don’t want Brexit to happen at all.”
Reuters
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 03:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
LONDON (Reuters) - More Britons will back leaving the European Union without a deal after the European Union offered a delay to Brexit, the former leader of the United Kingdom Independence Party Nigel Farage said on Friday.

“It’s a very, very clear majority (to leave with no-deal) and it’s gaining a few percent every week,” Farage told BBC radio.

“I’ll predict that in the wake of what happened last night here, understanding that we are not leaving on March 29, that number will grow,” Farage said.

Farage said he would lead the newly formed Brexit Party into the European parliamentary elections, if Britain takes part.
Reuters
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 03:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/vKQxczZh.jpg


A tweet from the The Telegraph’s Europe editor Peter Foster, re-tweeting Rem Korteweg, from the Dutch thinktank the Clingendael Institute
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 04:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Not really an aside (> "Norway model"):
EU leaders have today invited leaders from the non-EU countries in the EEA (European Economic Area), Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, to the summit to mark its 25 anniversary.

Quote:
Arriving at the summit, Iceland’s prime minister, Katrín Jakobsdóttir, was asked if she would welcome the UK in Efta (the European free trade association, which comprises the three non-EU countries in the EEA, plus Switzerland). She did not sound too keen. She replied:

I think the UK itself must think about the option, whether it is an option. From what I have read from the debate in the UK, they are also very critical of the components of the EEA agreement, which the Efta members are part of. So I don’t know whether that is the solution that the UK is looking for it.

Asked again if she would welcome the UK joining, she replied:

Obviously we would be happy to talk about that with the UK if that’s something the UK wants to talk about.
=ttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/mar/22/brexit-latest-news-eu-summit-extend-delay-article-50-eu-says-uk-will-leave-in-three-weeks-with-no-deal-unless-mps-back-agreement-or-decide-plan-b-politics-live][b]The Guardian (blog)[/b]
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 04:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Tory Brexiter Nigel Evans has just told Sky’s All Out Politics that, if Theresa May loses the vote next week, she must make it absolutely clear that the UK will leave the EU on 12 April. In other words, he wants her to embace no deal, and strongly resist any parliamentary efforts to find a plan B.

All Out Politics
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 06:23 am
@eurocelticyankee,
There won't be any more extension, if I understand the EU's position well.

As for threats to Europe, they are a plenty, with Putin and the fascist resurgence being indeed a big one. E.g. in France, Macron is now poised to lose the next presidential elections to Le Pen. But in order to deal with these other threats effectively we need to turn the page on Brexit.

3 weeks to go.
eurocelticyankee
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 08:01 am
@Olivier5,
I hope you're right but the only way you can be is if the UK crash out without a deal. Because it's almost certain that Mao (oops) May will lose the vote next week. So it's either extension or crash out.

Agree with you about the real threats. Putin for one, given a chance he'd love to roll into the old Soviet states no doubt using the pretext of protecting the ethnic Russian diasporas living there . They could easily manipulate that situation and as long as Trump and the far right remain in power in the US we can forget about getting any worthwhile response from them.
Sure there could be no EU by then with the right getting more powerful in a lot of the EU.

Nothing new here, all been done before. Czechoslovakia.
Everybody gets used at some stage, this time it's the Muslims and immigrants.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 11:42 am
Secret Cabinet Office document reveals chaotic planning for no-deal Brexit

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/24KSYIml.jpg
The extent and range of the impact of a no-deal Brexit is revealed in a confidential Cabinet Office document that warns of a “critical three-month phase” after leaving the EU during which the whole planning operation could be overwhelmed.

The classified document, seen by the Guardian, sets out the command and control structures in Whitehall for coping with a no-deal departure and says government departments will have to firefight most problems for themselves – or risk a collapse of “Operation Yellowhammer”.

“The … structure will quickly fall if too many decisions are unnecessarily escalated to the top levels that could have reasonably been dealt with internally …” the document says. It also concedes there are “likely to be unforeseen issues and impacts” of a no-deal Brexit that Operation Yellowhammer has been unable to predict.

The Cabinet Office has taken the lead in preparations for no-deal and is desperately war-gaming scenarios in the event the UK leaves without a coherent withdrawal plan.

The document includes a flow-chart of a routine no-deal day in Whitehall – which starts at 7am with “situation reports” from across the UK being sent to ministers and senior officials, and continues with non-stop assessments and meetings until 5.30am the following day.

[... ... ...]

https://i.imgur.com/4A2FFl3l.jpg

... ... ...



0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 01:34 pm
@eurocelticyankee,
I've accepted the idea of a no-deal Brexit for a long time now. It's been the most likely outcome IMO since last July when the Checkers proposal came out. So yes, they'll crash out with no deal and we'll all suffer from it, but nothing short of a miracle can avoid that now.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 02:21 am
The Brexit farce is about to turn to tragedy

Britain is paying for its ignorance of how the EU actually works
ROBERT COOPER, oped in the FT

Quote:
There are two big lessons. First we are paying the price of our failure for years to explain the EU. What is it for? Security. It delivers good political relations among neighbours — the best guarantee of security you can get. We have benefited very directly from this. Being in the EU together meant that for the first time we worked with Dublin as equals. That, and the open border, enabled peace in Ireland. In Britain, no one noticed. The EU is a political project: the customs union and the single market are means to an end. Why did no one tell us?

The second lesson is that we are governed by the parties for the parties. The system would never get past a decent competition regulator. Most people know that it makes no difference how they vote. We are the oldest parliamentary democracy, and it shows.


https://www.ft.com/content/5f3df8bc-4c03-11e9-bde6-79eaea5acb64
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 04:05 am
@Olivier5,
Organised by the People’s Vote, Britain for Europe and Open Britain, the Put It To The People March will demand that the public be given a final say on the Brexit deal. Up to 1 million people are expected to take part today. (Around 250 coaches are travelling from places across country. One set off from the Scottish Highlands on Friday evening and another left from the Cornish town of Penzance at 03:15 [with friends on it.])
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 04:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
And they have a strong case, the way I see it: why should the Commons have a "meaningful vote" on something they did not initiate? A referendum started this. Another one is needed to bring it to a close, one way or the other. The people deserve a meaningful vote, not the MPs.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 11:57 am
@Olivier5,
More than one million people have joined the Put It To The People march in central London today, organisers said.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 12:08 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
A few nice pics. I must say they managed to make me feel emotional about this...

https://www.courrierinternational.com/sites/ci_master/files/styles/image_original_765/public/assets/images/brexit_londres.jpg

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/36c4dad3acaff89019401c329fb34d14944d958e/0_171_5116_3070/master/5116.jpg?width=465&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=a84ddad0aacf32eadfbb0f0baad8e6e2

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/24231c91aa1682677996a57132e37250443a0205/0_0_5166_3497/master/5166.jpg?width=480&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=ed9585f61fdd2007d4255aaffc55e649

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/e7ec0a814663690242947be8d65eebd8aa85c9d6/0_0_6720_4480/master/6720.jpg?width=480&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=d47eccbd0374d13ae9f7f06358de87a0

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/65cf36e56eaa1981a52dd88ac542b097cf98b4df/0_0_1750_2553/master/1750.jpg?width=480&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=15221d6b99e6ac9b9c357dddb3801ea6
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 01:47 pm
@Olivier5,
Put it to the People march: a formidable sea of humanity and powerful strength of feeling
Quote:
They came to London from across Britain and Europe, filled with enthusiasm for the new three Rs: revoke, remain, reform

There are still a few things in public life that you cannot fake. You can fake photographs and you can fake news. You can fake conviction and you can fake emotions. You can fake a Twitter-petition and you can fake Facebook outrage. But you cannot fake an almighty crowd.

The numbers attending Saturday’s march for a second “people’s vote” on Brexit will no doubt be contested. The organisers claimed more than a million people were out; detractors inevitably argued a few thousand fewer. But make no mistake, for anyone who travelled to it, and shuffled along among it and who tried to find their way home after it, the Put it to the People march represented a formidable sea of humanity, and a powerful strength of feeling.
[...]
There had been suggestions that the march would be met by counter-demonstrations, but there were none in evidence. As the crowd first massed, with its blue and gold EU flags, I heard one or two shouts of “traitors” from those driving by. These “patriots” would have done well to talk to Brigadier Stephen Goodall, who led the “Veterans For EU” group.

Goodall will be 97 in June. He had travelled up from his home in Devon with four generations of his family including his great-granddaughter. During the war he helped to pull survivors out of the rubble of the Coventry bombing. He served in India and Burma and was awarded the Military Cross in 1945 for bravery behind enemy lines.

I had spoken to the brigadier the day before the march about his reasons for coming. “It was an easy decision,” he said. “There is not much time left for me to do anything and I just feel if we can even at this late stage get people thinking sensibly, then it will be worthwhile.” His great anxiety, as a former controller of the Slimbridge Wildlife Trust, was that our fractured politics would deflect us from the co-operative spirit required to combat climate change. “One thing that I always bear in mind from when we were in Malaya in the 1950s,” he said, “was this imperative that governance was first about reaching hearts and minds. We need politicians who think first of people,” he said, “not about their investments in the City of London.”

Goodall was pushed in his wheelchair near the head of the march, along with a brass band. It was impossible watching that sight not to make some comparisons with those few stubborn souls on the ill-fated “March to Leave”, moved to trudge along lonely hard-shoulders by Nigel Farage, only to find that he had turned up for the photo opportunity and left them to fend for themselves. Farage, alive to BBC requirements for “balance”, had returned to preach on Saturday to his handful of leaderless footsoldiers at a pub car park in Linby, Nottinghamshire: “You are the 17.4 million,” he told a crowd of 150.
[...]
Watching the crowd I was reminded of a book I reviewed for this paper not long after those electoral convulsions of 2016 here and across the Atlantic. The book, On Tyranny, by the Yale historian Timothy Snyder, was a little survival guide against the digital forces of populism and the brutalist politics they promoted. Snyder called above all for a “corporeal politics” in response, for voting with paper ballots that can be counted and recounted; for face-to-face conversation, and for marching rather than online petitioning: “Power wants your body softening in your chair and your emotions dissipating on a screen. Get outside. Put your body in unfamiliar places with unfamiliar people.”

Those who did this on Saturday will no doubt be told in the coming days, as Britain determines the kind of country it will become, that they were wasting their time and effort. But this march mattered in the simple and fundamental way that mass marches always matter: as a reminder to those who make decisions in their name that democracy is not a settled state, but a shifting expression of collective will. As one little girl’s sign had it: “The people are STILL speaking”.
 

Related Topics

THE BRITISH THREAD II - Discussion by jespah
FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION - Discussion by Mapleleaf
The United Kingdom's bye bye to Europe - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
Sinti and Roma: History repeating - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
[B]THE RED ROSE COUNTY[/B] - Discussion by Mathos
Leaving today for Europe - Discussion by cicerone imposter
So you think you know Europe? - Discussion by nimh
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.07 seconds on 04/25/2024 at 06:32:12