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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 07:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
He wouldn’t have said a dude ‘was kissing’ him in response to the clarification.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/from-nebulous-to-kissing-robust-may-juncker-dispute-dominates-eu-summit-11581106

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 09:02 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
He wouldn’t have said a dude ‘was kissing’ him in response to the clarification.
Junker" wrote:
"I was not addressing her, and in the course of the morning after having checked what I said yesterday night, she was kissing me."
The presse conference with that quote by Jumker is still online on numerous official and media websites. (Including the one you quoted)
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 09:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
How would a second Brexit referendum work?
Quote:
With parliament gridlocked on a Brexit deal, and time running out before the 29 March deadline, there is increasing focus on a second referendum.

Much of the attention so far has focused on the politics of the idea, but there are also complex logistical challenges. Below are the decisions which would have to be made, and hurdles cleared, if there was to be such a vote.

... ... ... ...
Very complicated. It certainly doesn't take a historian to work out that the United Kingdom is experiencing one of the most tumultuous and pivotal moments in its history.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 09:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yeah, it is. It’s dismissive due to her gender....she was mad, then she ‘was kissing me.’

Nothing you said addressed that fact.

Are you Juncker’s lawyer now?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 09:28 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Yeah, it is. It’s dismissive due to her gender....she was mad, then she ‘was kissing me.’

Nothing you said addressed that fact.

Are you Juncker’s lawyer now?
What I've read, heard and seen doesn't address anything like you wrote.
You might have got better sources and information.
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 09:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
No, I see dismissive sexism when it happens.
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 09:39 am
@Lash,
Oh THIS is interesting. I think the old goat will be called on this.

Wtf is he doing to this woman?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/bizarre-moment-jeanclaude-juncker-ruffles-officials-hair-before-brussels-spat-with-theresa-may-a4018196.html%3famp
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 11:10 am
Juncker is acting like a drunken sex harasser. Wasn’t the last E.U. leader carted off due to sexist, racist comments?

Wonder if this dismissive behavior of May is based on her gender?? Others are beginning to wonder too. Maybe he tried to fluff her hair, unsuccessfully...

Hmmm. LOL!!!
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 11:36 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Wasn’t the last E.U. leader carted off due to sexist, racist comments?
A "leader" of the EU does not exist, but there are a number of presidents of European Union institutions - President of the European Council, President of the European Commission, President of the European Parliament.
The presidency of the Council of the European Union (sort of the highest level) rotates by country.

Whom do you think of?

(I do know that Martin Schulz, the former President of the EU-Parliament, is an alcoholic, sober since 38 years.)
ehBeth
 
  2  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 11:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
maybe this guy?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39350113

nope
he wasn't carted off
his term seems to have ended as scheduled

Quote:
Jeroen René Victor Anton Dijsselbloem is a Dutch politician who served as President of the Eurogroup from 21 January 2013 to 12 January 2018 and President of the Board of Governors of the European Stability Mechanism from 11 February 2013 until 12 January 2018.


I totally get this

Quote:
In a statement to the BBC, he apologised for what he termed "Dutch directness" that he attributed to a strict Calvinistic culture.


having grown up on Holland Crescent in Calvin Park and with my dad's best friend being "that damned dutchman" (invariably after P had been too blunt at work again)
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 12:17 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/06/eu-commissioner-unfit-for-role-after-racist-sexist-and-homophobic-remarks-say-ngos

Seems he and his bud Juncker may be cut from the same cloth.
EU commissioner unfit for role after racist, sexist and homophobic remarks, say NGOs
HR chief Günther Oettinger should be leading by example rather than making divisive remarks, open letter states

Agence France-Presse
Thu 5 Jan 2017 20.16 EST

Germany’s EU commissioner Günther Oettinger is unfit to run the human resources portfolio because of his divisive record of racist, sexist and homophobic remarks, rights groups have said.

In an open letter to the European Parliament, which will publicly question Oettinger on Monday, NGOs including Oxfam International and Transparency International said Oettinger was not suitable for the new job.

Oettinger, previously the digital services commissioner, was named in October by commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker to take on the budget and human resources dossier from Bulgaria’s Kristalina Georgieva after she left for the World Bank.

EU chief pokes fun at Chinese, gay marriage and ex-chancellor

But in early November Oettinger was forced to apologise for referring to Chinese people as “slitty eyes” and making disparaging remarks about women, same-sex marriage and Belgian politicians in a speech.
———————
ehBeth
 
  2  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 12:28 pm
@Lash,
not carted off either

Quote:
Günther Hermann Oettinger is a German politician and a member of the Christian Democratic Union. As of 1 January 2017, he serves as the European Commissioner for Budget and Human Resources in the college of the Juncker Commission


___

still on board

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-oettinger/brexit-clarifications-possible-but-no-further-negotiations-euoettinger-idUSKBN1OC0RY


__


there certainly seems to be a fine selection of politicians who say stupid things pretty much everywhere
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 12:38 pm
@Lash,
I really would like to join you, Lash, bashing the Conservatives and especially Oettinger.
But who was the "leader", carted off due to sexist, racist comments? Oettinger is still one of the 28 commissioners (he was a "leader" years ago, when he was the prime minister of Baden-Würtemberg).

Nevertheless, I doubt that all this is related to the actual Brexit-chaos or has influenced the original referendum (although some of its leading political supporters showed at signs of racism and sexism*). Nor did the fact that the Conservative [UK] MEP's defended Hungary's "appalling track record" of "vivid antisemitism".

*Journal Ethnic and Racial Studies, Volume 41, 2018 - Issue 10: Virdee, Satnam: Racism, Crisis, Brexit
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 01:37 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Prepare for fresh referendum within months, Nigel Farage tells Leave supporters
Quote:
Nigel Farage has told Brexit campaigners they should prepare for another referendum amid parliamentary deadlock over Theresa May's planned deal.

The former Ukip leader told Leave supporters to be "ready" for a fresh public vote amid reports that some cabinet ministers are increasingly receptive to the idea of giving the public the Final Say on Brexit.

Speaking at a Leave Means Leave rally in London, he "implored" Brexiteers to prepare for another campaign, suggesting he expected a fresh referendum within months.

Mr Farage told the crowd he did not believe "the great Brexit betrayal is anywhere near finished" and said he was "more fearful than any point in this process".

He said: "My message folks tonight is, as much as I don't want a second referendum, it would be wrong of us on a Leave Means Leave platform not to get ready, not to be prepared for a worst case scenario."
[...]
Several ministers, including Philip Hammond, the chancellor, and Ms May's deputy, David Lidington, are said to be increasingly receptive to the idea of another referendum, and want Ms May to hold a series of "indicative votes" in Parliament to determine which Brexit outcome she is most likely to build a Commons majority for.

Jo Johnson, who resigned as a transport minister last month to back calls to give the public the Final Say, said there was growing support among cabinet ministers for a fresh referendum.

He told The Times: “We have had serious conversations. There is increasing interest around No 10 and the Cabinet Office about a second referendum, putting the prime minister’s deal to the public.

“She needs a bridge back to reality and I think a referendum can help that.”

Mr Johnson also warned Ms May that she would not get away with "running down the clock" in order to force MPs to support her Brexit deal as the only alternative to no deal.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I am concerned that Number 10 is running down the clock. Number 10 could try to leave that vote [on the Brexit deal] until the very last minute.

"Effectively, giving the country, giving Parliament no choice at all, except between her deal, flawed as it is and facing fundamental opposition across all sides of the House, and no deal at all, and that's an unacceptable choice for Parliament.

"It's simply unacceptable to run out the clock and face the country with the prospect of being timed-out."

Labour MP Kate Hoey spoke alongside Mr Farage at the Leave Means Leave rally and caused a stir by appearing to equate Brexit with the IRA as a threat to a united Ireland.

She said: "We didn't spend 30 years in Northern Ireland stopping IRA terrorists killing soldiers, police, and civilians, in order to get a united Ireland to allow a few jumped-up EU bureaucrats and a complicit prime minister to try and do the same thing by the back door.

"Even more ridiculous is that it would not even be in the economic interests of Northern Ireland who depend so much of their trade, to and from Britain. Why is a British prime minister dancing to the tune of an Irish Taoiseach? There's no need for a hard border and there's no need for a backstop."
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 04:46 pm
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48407346_1997729833640551_8194811490692235264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=5509881ddade8a1ea786194624bbf4da&oe=5C8CB21E

Schott, De Volkskrant
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 11:51 pm
@ehBeth,
From the Observer's editorial The Observer view on the baleful distraction of Brexit
Quote:
Every shred of political energy is being tied up in Brexit, with detrimental effects on a nation facing other urgent challenges
[... ... ...]
In 2016, Brexit was disingenuously sold by rightwing Eurosceptics as a solution to the very problems that the government’s austerity drive had compounded – stretched public services, ailing local economies and a lack of good jobs. It is not only a major distraction from finding answers to those problems: the economic pain it inflicts will make them worse. There are no Brexit-shaped shortcuts to better hospitals and schools, a kinder welfare state, more well-paid jobs and flourishing town centres. But they are things people rightly want and expect and the government must find a way to deliver them.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 16 Dec, 2018 07:39 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The Home Secretary is said to have plans to cut European immigration by 80 per cent under stricter entry conditions after Brexit.
Sajid Javid is expected to publish plans to end free movement and preferential access for EU migrants after December 2020 – which will see net immigration from Europe reduced to as little as 10,000 a year, according to the Sunday Times.
[...]
It is expected to lead to a cut in the number of highly skilled EU migrants from 15,000 last year to about 11,000, while those who are “medium skilled” will be slashed from 18,500 to around 4,500. Most of the 40,000 EU citizens with low skills are expected not to come at all.

Medium-skilled migrants will only be allowed in if they have a job paying at least £30,000 a year, while low-skilled workers will get short-term visas of up to a year if they are from a country that is a “low risk of immigration abuse”, according to the newspaper.

The reports will fuel concerns about the impact of Brexit on the economy after a study commissioned by the government found EU workers pay far more to the public purse than British-born residents – at £2,300 more in net terms than the average adult.

It found that over their lifetimes, migrants from the EU pay in £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits – while the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution is zero.

The reports will also stoke fears about gaps in the workforce in sectors that rely largely on EU workers, such as social care nursing and the hospitality industry.

Mr Javid is also set to distance himself from Theresa May’s “hostile environment” towards migrants and pledge to launch a “new conversation” on immigration with a “fair and transparent compliant environment” that helps protect legitimate migrants while cracking down on illegals.

The White Paper is also expected to outline that EU nationals will no longer be able to travel to the UK using a national identity card but will have to use a passport.

Regarding the 'passport': even before the UK became an EU-member you could go there with a (German) ID-card. The entry date (but rarely the leaving date) was stamped on a so-called "Visitor Card".
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 16 Dec, 2018 07:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Brexit pressure rises, but the UK government says "NO" to a second vote

The Guardian: No 10 denies making plans for second Brexit referendum
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 16 Dec, 2018 02:00 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Brexit: what options are mooted to break the stalemate?
Quote:
From indicative votes to Norway Plus, the solutions currently under consideration

As Theresa May prepares to address parliament on Monday after Downing Street denied there were plans for a second referendum, here are some of the options being floated as a solution to the current impasse.

Take the pulse of parliament
Even some who believe May’s deal is a reasonable compromise, such as the education secretary, Damian Hinds, think it would be helpful to test how much support alternative options have among MPs, through a series of indicative votes, preferably this side of Christmas.

He, along with the Brexiter international trade secretary, Liam Fox, believe doing so would underline that alternatives, including a Norway-style relationship with the EU, would not command a majority.

MPs would then have to face the real choice: May’s deal, another referendum or leaving with no deal.
... ... ...

Norway-plus
The former Conservative minister Nick Boles has been enthusiastically promulgating the idea of a Norway-style Brexit for several months, as has the Labour backbencher Stephen Kinnock.

They have the backing of a number of Conservative MPs, including the former Number 10 adviser George Freeman and the former minister Oliver Letwin.
... ... ...

Second referendum
Support for a “people’s vote” at Westminster has mushroomed in recent weeks, as the various Brexit camps have become increasingly entrenched and the likelihood of the prime minister winning support for her deal has diminished.

Cabinet ministers including Rudd believe the government may have to resort to a referendum as a way out of the stalemate in parliament, and several other senior Tories, including Jo Johnson and Sam Gyimah, left the government to campaign for such a vote.
... ... ...

“Managed” no deal
With time running short for thorough no-deal preparations, Brexiters in cabinet and on the backbenches are shifting toward a halfway house they call a “managed no deal”.

The European Research Group chair, Jacob Rees-Mogg, has advocated the idea, as has leader of the Commons, Andrea Leadsom. The development secretary, Penny Mordaunt, who has remained in the government but said little in support of the prime minister’s deal, is expected to lend her backing to some version of a managed no deal this week.

It would see the government repudiate the withdrawal agreement containing the backstop and pursue a free-trade agreement instead. It would agree to pay perhaps half of the £39bn exit fee and seek to strike a series of quick deals on key issues such as aviation to avoid the worst potential disruption.
... ... ...

Labour Brexit
Corbyn and his shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer, insist that if May’s deal is voted down, their first priority would be to win parliament over to Labour’s alternative approach.

At the party’s conference in Liverpool in September, Corbyn told May: “if you deliver a deal that includes a customs union and no hard border in Ireland, if you protect jobs, people’s rights at work and environmental and consumer standards, then we will support that sensible deal. A deal that would be backed by most of the business world and trade unions too.”

There has been little talk of cooperation between the two parties’ frontbenches, with Tory whips instead trying to reach out to centrist Labour backbenchers, many of whom have hardened their support for a second referendum and would not back any Brexit deal.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 16 Dec, 2018 11:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
PM to urge parliament not to 'break faith with the people'
Quote:
Theresa May’s statement aims to stifle growing demands for second referendum

Theresa May will urge MPs on Monday not to “break faith with the British people” by demanding a second referendum, as she faces intense pressure to give parliament a say on Brexit before Christmas.

The prime minister will make a statement to MPs on last week’s European council summit in Brussels, from which she returned with little evidence of progress in securing legal reassurances on the Irish backstop.
[...]
“Let us not break faith with the British people by trying to stage another referendum,” the prime minister will tell MPs. “Another vote which would do irreparable damage to the integrity of our politics, because it would say to millions who trusted in democracy, that our democracy does not deliver. Another vote which would likely leave us no further forward than the last.”

Her message is aimed partly at Conservative MPs, and some ministers, who have become increasingly convinced that a referendum is the only way out of the impasse at Westminster after the prime minister abruptly pulled plans for a vote on her deal last week.
... ... ...




 

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