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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
najmelliw
 
  1  
Tue 20 Nov, 2018 03:39 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

The Brexit tumult shows: the EU has grown together so closely that it is virtually impossible to leave the EU - at least not at reasonable cost.


The brexit deal shows a country that doesn't know what it wants or needs... The brits are divided among themselves, the government is reeling, and the deal hasn't even been done.

I wouldn't call the EU members close, particularly not with growing dissent in both the eastern and western regions towards one another, and Italy that basically says 'scr*w you, we'll make our own budgets, thank you very much'.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Tue 20 Nov, 2018 09:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Rebels seeking to remove Theresa May risk bringing about “the most appalling chaos”, which could destabilise the country and damage Britain’s international reputation, Jeremy Hunt has said.


could?

too late

already happened
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 08:15 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - A statement by 27 European Union leaders will say on Sunday that the bloc would show “particular vigilance” on how Britain behaves regarding fisheries and industry standards after Brexit, according to a draft seen by Reuters on Thursday.

Before the Sunday summit, meant to endorse the Brexit deal with Britain, the draft statement, however, contained no detailed solution to Gibraltar, the main outstanding problem.

“A fisheries agreement is a matter of priority and should build on ... existing reciprocal access and quota shares,” the draft said, adding such an agreement should be reached before the end of Britain’s status-quo transition period after Brexit.

The draft “statement to the minutes” of the Sunday summit would be a separate text by the 27 EU states staying on together after Brexit.
reuters

Edit: confirmed by several other sources: Britain and the European Union agreed a draft text setting out a close post-Brexit relationship, officials said, though wrangles over fish and the future of Gibraltar must still be settled before leaders meet on Sunday.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 08:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
We had friends from England (formerly A2K'ers as well) staying with us for a week.
When they arrived back at the UK-airport, border control asked where we flew from
Quote:
I said Germany, Paderborn-Lippstadt, 7 out only 5 back
Ah he said, so two more have escaped.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 08:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The 27 European Union leaders on Sunday aim to endorse a separate declaration along with the Brexit package to cover fisheries, environmental standards and Gibraltar, EU diplomats said.
najmelliw
 
  2  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 08:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

The 27 European Union leaders on Sunday aim to endorse a separate declaration along with the Brexit package to cover fisheries, environmental standards and Gibraltar, EU diplomats said.


The dutch fishermen are quite concerned about this, btw. They fear that this may be a prestige issue for May, a way to make the rest of the Brexit deal more palatable for the English, and that they will become victim of the concerted efforts of both the EU and England to make the Brexit deal work (since the idea is that British territorial waters would be reserved for Brits only, and a lot of dutch fishermen actually fish in those waters).
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 09:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Gibraltar Chronicle: EU and UK agree draft Brexit political declaration, as May speaks to Sanchez over Gib row
Quote:
[...]
Mrs May, who has made clear that Gibraltar will not be excluded from the UK’s negotiations for a future relationship wit the EU after Brexit, spoke with Mr Sanchez by phone on Wednesday evening to try to deal with the situation.

A Downing Street spokesman said: “She said there had been good engagement between the UK, the government of Spain and the government of Gibraltar in order to come to an agreement in the withdrawal agreement and associated package of memoranda of understanding relating to Gibraltar.”

“She said that the UK and government of Gibraltar looked forward to these discussions continuing as we discuss the future relationship.”

“The Prime Minister reiterated her commitment to agreeing a deal that works for the whole UK family including Gibraltar, the other UK overseas territories and the crown dependencies.”
[...]
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 09:27 am
@najmelliw,
najmelliw wrote:
The dutch fishermen are quite concerned about this, btw.
Quote:
Dutch fishermen and colleagues from other EU countries are in danger of losing their access to British fishing grounds. A troubled Lower House called on the Prime Minister to prevent this and to provide more security for the fishermen. That's what we're going to fight for'', Rutte promised. According to him, the Netherlands is not alone in this.
Source: AD (Algemeen Dagblad), in Dutch
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 10:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
>Political declaration setting out the framework for the future relationship between the European Union and the United Kingdom< (PDF data)

Reading the paper, you might think that the British wanted to join the Union rather than leave it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 12:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quotes from the Guardian's report
Key Brexit dates: what happens next?
Quote:
Theresa May has outlined her vision for future ties with the EU, but obstacles lie ahead
Quote:
This weekend
The prime minister travels to Brussels for a final round of talks on Saturday with the European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker. Areas that still need to be pinned down include Spanish worries over the future of Gibraltar.

On Sunday May hopes the other 27 EU leaders would formally sign off both agreements at a special summit.
Quote:
Early December
Many MPs believe May would start the tortuous process of trying to get the deal through parliament on 10 December. However, the Commons business for the week before has not yet been announced, so it could theoretically come then.

Whenever it arrives the process has been expected to see a fierce debate and, if the tallies of Conservative MPs who have promised publicly to oppose the deal were to be believed, end in defeat for May.

Much remains in doubt, not least even the format for the Commons process. While the consensus has been that the motion must be amendable by MPs, it is believed ministers wanted amendments to only be tabled if the main motion was defeated – the usual format has been for amendments to be voted on ahead of a final decision. The Speaker, John Bercow, has indicated he believes the first option would be preferable.

If the plan was defeated in the Commons then the waters would be more uncharted still. Officially, this would leave a no-deal departure as the default option, but many MPs have vowed to stop this as well. If both were blocked then options to break the deadlock would include a general election – Labour’s preferred choice – or perhaps, if it was logistically possible, a second referendum. Both have numerous obstacles preventing them, however.
Quote:
13 and 14 December
The other immediate diary date has been the long-scheduled EU summit on these days. Some around May might harbour plans of taking the deal back to Brussels yet again and extracting more concessions under threat of no deal. But the EU has been clear that the agreement as it stands was the best that would be offered.

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 02:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes, by emphasizing the many remaining links between the EU and the UK, the document does give the impression that those two are joined at so many "hips", eg Northern Ireland, the ECHR, infrastructure, etc... The UK ain't going to sail free and far away from Europe anytime soon if this framework holds.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 11:38 pm
@Olivier5,
https://i.imgur.com/4sfJ6Zvl.jpg

Before the Brexit summit on Sunday, the fronts between Spain and the UK remain hardened because of the dispute over the British overseas territory of Gibraltar. Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez wrote on Twitter that after his conversation with Prime Minister Theresa May the positions were still far apart. The government in Madrid had called for changes to the draft treaty on the UK's withdrawal from the EU planned for 2019 because it feared that Gibraltar's future status would be determined.

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/izimZwx.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 12:40 am
@ehBeth,
As a side note, bit more about Hamburg and Brexit
Quote:
Hamburg (dpa/lno) - With a review of its more than 400 years old tradition the English Church Hamburg reacts to the impending withdrawal of Great Britain from the EU. Until the Brexit deadline on 29 March, the congregation will be showing an exhibition on the history of the 180-year-old building in the Anglican church on Zeughausmarkt. The Thomas Becket Church is a "visible example of centuries-old friendly relations between Hamburg and Great Britain," explained a spokeswoman for the congregation, adding: "We believe that this friendship has survived Napoleon and two world wars and will also survive a Brexit.

The classicist building by the German-Danish architect Ole Jørgen Schmidt was consecrated on 11 November 1838. The forerunner church stood near Hamburg's main church St. Katharinen. The building was allowed to be built according to a free trade agreement that an English cloth merchant company had concluded with Hamburg at the beginning of the 17th century. The exhibition will open on Saturday evening.

Translated from original German source



https://i.imgur.com/9FGKdWi.jpg
A visible sign of enduring friendship on the Anglican Church of St Thomas Becket website.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 01:11 am
@Walter Hinteler,
They can't veto Brexit though. All they could do is force a no deal Brexit.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 02:39 am
Quote:
Former Brexit secretary Dominic Raab has claimed that Theresa May’s deal on Brexit would be worse than staying in the EU.

Asked on Today to chose between no Brexit at all and May’s deal, Raab eventually said:
"If you just presented me terms: this deal or EU membership, because we would effectively be bound by the same rules without the control or voice over them, yes I think this would be even worse than that."
He pointed out that under the deal the only way for the UK to get out of the backstop arrangement would be with the EU’s agreement. He said this would involving losing control over our laws. He added: “We would have to kowtow to them”.

Asked about a report in the Telegraph that some Brexit cabinet minsters were plotting a negotiated no deal, Raab said: “I would certainly be up for making a best final offer and then considering no deal deals like, but that is not the course the prime minister has taken. The reality is the deal we have got on the table.”
The Guardian

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/36W1c8L.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 09:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
MADRID (Reuters) - Spain has a commitment from Britain to support the inclusion of clarifications on the status of Gibraltar in the Brexit package, Spanish Secretary of State for the European Union Luis Marco Aguiriano said on Friday outside a meeting in Brussels.

Spain wants to see that commitment from Britain in writing before Sunday’s European Union summit, he said, adding that Spain wanted to clear up the issue of Gibraltar in the Brexit deal so as not to have to vote against the final package.
reuters
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 10:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Another aside: fishing, which represents 0.05% of the economy (and the UK imports almost twice as much fish as it exports, with the top five being cod, tuna, prawns, salmon and haddock), is the only UK industry to merit its own sections in the Brexit agreements that Britain has negotiated with Brussels.

But similar to Gibraltar, it's still an unsolved (kind of, at least) problem.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 24 Nov, 2018 01:57 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Not only that a Pro-Brexit adviser admits UK would be better off staying in EU, but the Spanish PM threatens to snub Brexit summit over future of Gibraltar.

But that was all predictable.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 24 Nov, 2018 05:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Brexit: anonymous Twitter account gives droll voice to Irish border row
Quote:
@BorderIrish already has more than 45,000 followers, including the taoiseach

Channelling the spirit of Monty Python, Father Ted and Oscar Wilde, the voice trolls the Brexit process with a tone that is whimsical, sometimes surreal and always pointed.

“I dislike Brexit but, speaking as a border, I do admire its ability to completely divide a country,” it declared.

It is @BorderIrish, an anonymous Twitter account with more than 45,000 followers, including the taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, which gives voice to the 310-mile (499km) border between Northern Ireland and the republic.

“I’m seamless & frictionless already, thanks,” says its Twitter bio. “Bit scared of physical infrastructure.”

Tory tumult over Theresa May’s Brexit deal elicits schadenfreude. “It’s a pleasurable historical irony that I have divided, and created a civil war in, the Conservative party.”

It treats Boris Johnson – who was due to address the Democratic Unionist party conference in Belfast on Saturday – with disdain for the former foreign minister’s blitheness about Irish history.

It mocks proposed “smart technology” solutions for a border which partitioned Ireland in 1922 and gradually became invisible due to Irish and UK membership of the European Union and the Good Friday agreement.

“I currently:
– hold together two countries that were once in military conflict
– am porous enough to allow two clashing identities to live in peace
– allow extensive free movement of goods and people
– am as beautiful as the setting sun.
So don’t tell me I could be ‘smart’.”

It has compared Brexit to football and cricket. “Invented by the British, then it turns out they’re crap at it.”

It was due to speak to RTE radio on Saturday, its sentiments spoken by an actor.

In an email interview with the Guardian, @BorderIrish declined to identify the person behind it but explained why it started tweeting.

“I was living the quiet life, watching the traffic and the sheep go by and then Brexit came along and I listened to people dismissing my importance. I could see the danger coming in the distance, like a cold front on the Tyrone skyline. So I thought, how can an invisible border be heard?”


https://twitter.com/borderirish?lang=en
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 24 Nov, 2018 08:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The EU and Spain have found a compromise for the dispute over the future of Gibraltar after the Brexit. This clears the way for the EU summit on Sunday, SPIEGEL reported

According to Reuters, EU Council President Donald Tusk and Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez have reached agreement on the dispute.
 

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