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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

Forums: Europe, Eu, European Union, Britain, Brexit
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Thu 9 Jun, 2016 09:36 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
A late reply to a post from Walter - Gianrico Carofiglio is one of my favorite novelists (I know he's worked as a judge as well).
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2016 05:48 am
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36496203

A Labour MP will vote Brexit.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2016 07:39 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
A Labour MP will vote Brexit.
Not just one, there are several.
Some Conservatives are voting remain, too, most prominently Sarah Wollaston. She chairs the Health Committee in the House of Commons (by profession, she is a general practitioner with more than twenty years in clinical practice)
She has left the European Union referendum 'Leave' camp over its claims about more money for the NHS if Britain leaves the EU. (see here)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2016 07:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
EU referendum: British public wrong about nearly everything, survey shows
Quote:
According to their research by Ipsos MORI, British people think far more EU citizens live in the UK than actually do, that we pay far more money to the EU budget than is the case, and that we significantly overestimate the amount of benefits paid to EU migrants.

[... ... ...]

Professor Anand Menon, Director of the UK in a Changing Europe, who co-authored the study said:

“There are obviously still high levels of ignorance about the EU, which is troubling so close to the referendum. However, it is not so surprising, given the lack of accurate information provided to the public, as well as the mistruths, exaggerations, and scaremongering that have taken place during this campaign. It’s now more imperative than ever that the public can be provided with as much factual information about the EU as possible before they cast their vote
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jun, 2016 12:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The choice is between a moment of pride and a new future built together: If Britain is clever, it will remain a member of the EU, because it will recognise that the future of the west is at stake.

http://i67.tinypic.com/x66hh.jpg
An editorial in the new Spiegel magazine by Klaus Brinkbäumer (executive editor of DER SPIEGEL) and Florian Harms executive editor of SPIEGEL ONLINE)

Full text here
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:42 am
The rhetoric is really heating up. Thanks for the article, Walter.

Edit: I don't think the tone of that article is helpful toward a British alliance with the EU. It sounds like the success of the EU weighs heavily on the shoulders of Britain, yet they are expected to give away their clout to the collaborative.

Unattractive position.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:19 am
@Lash,
Well, the EU is a community.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2016 07:32 am
And today I've read that the UK will get Orlando-like massacres if they stay in the EU

http://i67.tinypic.com/scz3ft.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jun, 2016 07:58 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
... a British alliance with the EU.
I've missed that.

Until now, the UK is a member of the UK.
That would be finished with the 'Brexit'.

Afterwards, everything had to be negotiated.
The EU is for ‘full’ members only.
If you don't want it, you can get (after negotiations) an "associate membership". This gives access to the internal market with its free movement of goods, services, capital and people. You will only have to apply those rules and regulations that are necessary to create a level playing field in internal trade.
That also means you don't have representation and the corresponding voting rights at EU level but have to follow the rules.



Perhaps, there will be as a third possibility something new, just for the UK. But Norway and Switzerland, for instance, then would want the same conditions as well.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 13 Jun, 2016 08:02 am
The Guardian has a good report about
Is the EU undemocratic?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 14 Jun, 2016 12:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
http://i66.tinypic.com/11h6wrs.jpg
Quote:
Outside the EU we can become richer, safer and free at long last to forge our own destiny — as America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many other great democracies already do. And as we were the first to do centuries ago.

If we stay, Britain will be engulfed in a few short years by this relentlessly expanding ­German dominated federal state.
Source

(The Sun is a daily tabloid newspaper, actually the largest selling newspaper in the UK)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Tue 14 Jun, 2016 02:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Well, that finally provides answers to questions i asked pages ago. I still think the European Commission is a bad idea.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 14 Jun, 2016 02:36 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I still think the European Commission is a bad idea.
At least, with 27 Commisioners. But I do think that you must have an executive body.

Lash
 
  1  
Tue 14 Jun, 2016 06:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That was an enormously helpful article and link to other good information. I have to shake my head though. If I were a Brit, the explanations offered to counter anti-democratic concerns didn't satisfy.

The EU does seem like a top-heavy bureaucratic gulf between the people and vitally important decisions that affect their lives. It is a great step forward for anti-democratic neoliberalism, imo.

It's happening here too. Our presidents are becoming a bit too fond of executive order.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Tue 14 Jun, 2016 06:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Setanta wrote:
I still think the European Commission is a bad idea.
At least, with 27 Commisioners. But I do think that you must have an executive body.



Seems to be just one more exclusionary layer between the people and power.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 14 Jun, 2016 06:12 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Seems to be just one more exclusionary layer between the people and power.
We (here in Germany) don't elect civil servants, at least none besides mayors.
But even if think of them as ministers - we don't elect them either.

(And as an aside: with just 36.1% of the votes, no party could form a government here in Germany ... like it's done in the UK.)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Tue 14 Jun, 2016 03:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
In our system, the executive does not propose legislation. I think if makes sense for those who do to be answerable to the electorate, directly.
Tes yeux noirs
 
  4  
Tue 14 Jun, 2016 03:55 pm
If there is Brexit, I'm going to Spain. Or France. Possibly if there is a Scottish independence referendum, and they leave the UK, I could move to Edinburgh. if there is Brexit, it means complete shits like Boris, absolute tossers like Farage, and white-van-men Sun reading ignorant yahoos have taken over, and I don't want to be part of such a country.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 14 Jun, 2016 10:14 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
In our system, the executive does not propose legislation. I think if makes sense for those who do to be answerable to the electorate, directly.
Interestingly, in England it does. There, like here, the ministers are elected members of the parliament.

I do think that candidates for the Commission should be e.g. candidate at the top of their voting lists in European elections.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 14 Jun, 2016 11:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Two decades ago the idea of Britain leaving the EU was almost unthinkable. How did a generation of Tory Eurosceptics bring it back?
Brexit: how a fringe idea took hold of the Tory party
0 Replies
 
 

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