Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

@Blickers,

Well, she (resp the DPU) certainly and her/their opinion is a factor in the current negotiations. As is the Irish "governmental situation".

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@Walter Hinteler,

But it was a letter to the heads of foreign nations, not a communication to the UK government made during negotiations. Her posing as the head of the Northern Ireland government in the matter of announcements of official Northern Ireland policy to foreign governments is simply posturing. She's in no political office to make those announcements. She was in that office, but she's not in it anymore.

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@Blickers,

Isn't she allowed to give her opinion?

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@cicerone imposter,

It wasn't an opinion about her saying what she thinks should happen. It was written in the tone of a directive from the Northern Ireland government to heads of foreign nations, saying that they must regard Northern Ireland as withdrawn from the EU. She had no right to write such a letter, she's trying to pretend she is still in charge of the country when her leadership position is actually vacant now.

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@Blickers,

Since she has no official role to represent the Brits, I don’t see why other governments would let her influence them. Also, she’s no longer amongst the living.

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@cicerone imposter,

The conservative government needs the DUP in parliament, otherwise the UK's government would be without majority.

Breaking news from this afternoon:
DUP threatens to pull support from Theresa May's government if she backs down over post-Brexit Irish border

Quote:

The Democratic Unionist Party has dramatically threatened to rethink its deal to prop up Theresa May in power if she compromises over the Irish border after Brexit.

Sammy Wilson, one of the DUP’s 10 MPs, said the party would not accept any moves that would see Northern Ireland “treated differently than the rest of the UK”.

The warning follows reports that further powers could be devolved to Belfast allowing rules in areas such as agriculture and energy to be aligned with the EU – rather than London.

“If there is any hint that, in order to placate Dublin and the EU, they're prepared to have Northern Ireland treated differently than the rest of the UK, then they can't rely on our vote,” Mr Wilson said.

“They have to recognise that, if this is about treating Northern Ireland differently, or leaving us half in the EU, dragging along behind regulations which change in Dublin, it's not on.”

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@Walter Hinteler,

@Walter:

Quote:

The conservative government needs the DUP in parliament, otherwise the UK's government would be without majority.

OK, I see now that she is in an unofficial position to strongly influence London't policy on this issue, even to the extent that the party she leads can collapse Parliament's ruling coalition. I didn't quite understand that before.

But even so, she's not in an official position to decide. Telling the Conservative leadership in Parliament that they had better see it her way or she will collapse their ruling coalition by withdrawing her party from it is one thing. That's normal government jockeying for power. Sending out an official letter to heads of other countries saying definitively that this will be Britain's position is presumptuous, since she has no official position in the UK government.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

OK, I see now that she is in an unofficial position to strongly influence London't policy on this issue, ...

Well, I'd thought, you knew about the Conservative–DUP agreement (officially the Agreement between the Conservative and Unionist Party and the Democratic Unionist Party on Support for the Government in Parliament) since you responding several times when I'd referred to it.

Blickers wrote:

she is in an unofficial position ... she's not in an official position to decide

Do you really think, she was just unofficially involved in the process and later signing of said agreement between the two parties?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Source: DUP website

What is her "unofficial position" and why is she "not in an official position to decide"?

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

Sending out an official letter to heads of other countries saying definitively that this will be Britain's position is presumptuous, since she has no official position in the UK government.

it's also quite normal

politicians of all types communicate with foreign governments all the time

what the governments do with those communications vary. they certainly take a look at what role/future the person has in their home country

__

regular members of the public write to foreign governments as well

__

now this woman happens to have some influence on what will happen - so people are probably at least reading her communication

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Ireland demands 'significantly more clarity' from UK over Brexit border

DUBLIN/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Ireland needs Britain to provide “significantly more clarity” on its plans for the Irish border, Foreign Minister Simon Coveney said on Thursday, denting hopes that London was on the verge of a deal to move on to the second phase of Brexit talks.

But British Prime Minister Theresa May’s room to offer additional concessions to Dublin appeared extremely limited as the Northern Ireland party propping up her government hinted it might withdraw its support if she gives too much.

Avoiding a so-called “hard border” on the island of Ireland is the last major hurdle before Brexit talks can move to negotiations on Britain’s future trade relationship with the EU and a possible two-year Brexit transition deal.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote Walter:

Quote:

Do you really think, she was just unofficially involved in the process and later signing of said agreement between the two parties?

A. First, she didn't need to be any official position in the government to sign that, since the agreement was between a Northern Ireland party and a party with national representation in the UK. The UK government itself was unrepresented. The governments of both the UK as a whole and Northern Ireland were unrepresented. Since this is a deal between political parties, not between governments, it doesn't even count as foreign affairs.

The letter she sent out was done when she no longer had the official position as head of the country-that position was vacant. So what is she doing sending out letters telling foreign heads of state how they are allowed to regard Northern Ireland's position re the EU? She doesn't speak for Northern Ireland officially in any form.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote Walter:

Quote:

What is her "unofficial position" and why is she "not in an official position to decide"?

Because she can only decide or even speak with the imprimatur of official office if she was still First Minister, which she no longer is:

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@ehBeth,

Quote ehBeth:

Quote:

politicians of all types communicate with foreign governments all the time

what the governments do with those communications vary. they certainly take a look at what role/future the person has in their home country

__

regular members of the public write to foreign governments as well

Negotiating as a representive in the legislature is one thing, pretending to be First Minister when the position is actually vacant is another. Foster did the latter.

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@Blickers,

Her Majesty's Government could only be formed due to this agreement (from where did you get that it is a deal?).
The agreement as a whole will be reviewed at the end of each parliamentary session. Since the current parliamentary session runs until 2019, this is effectively a two-year deal to see through Brexit.

Northern Ireland is ... a country, province or region. But according to ISO 3166-2 code, Northern Ireland is a province.

Whatsoever: any foreign affairs are done by the UK's Foreign & Commonwealth Office.

Arlene Foster wrote that letter as the leader of DUP. And what she wrote showed the addressees what (further) difficulties might arise to get a single UK-opinion.

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@Blickers,

She IS the leader of DUP and wrote the letter from that position:

Quote:

"I have written to the heads of government of each of the EU 27 member states setting out our views."

Quotew from her speech at the DUP annual conference in Belfast.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Absolutely nobody is doubting that she is the head of the DUP, which is a political party in Northern Ireland-NOT a government office.

Quote Walter:

Quote:

Whatsoever: any foreign affairs are done by the UK's Foreign & Commonwealth Office.

Which Foster isn't part of. So what is she doing sending letters to heads of state telling them how that are allowed to view Northern Ireland's position re the EU? Her influence can possibly affect-not necessarily control-how the UK's Foreign Office will decide on the issue, but that letter is written as if she's the head of state. Which she's not. The First Minister is a vacant position.

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@Blickers,

Well, okay. If such would be done in my state, the state would do it via the Permanent Representation of the State North Rhine-Westphalia to the European Union . If a party, not in our state's government (we've a coalition government, conservative [CDU] and liberals [FDP]) wanted to tell something to other EU-countries, they would use either our state's representation or ... do it as is discussed here.

I haven't seen that letter, just heard/read part of her speech.
My reference to the Foreign Office was just related to "foreign affairs". Brexit is managed by the UK government by an own Department for Exiting the European Union plus various others.

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@Walter Hinteler,

The UK parliament's Exiting the EU Committee said on Friday morning that the government's decision to withdraw from the European single market and customs union were impossible to reconcile with a "frictionless" Irish border.

Quote:

A proposed 'deal' to avoid a hard border lay in tatters last night after the DUP threatened to withdraw support for Theresa May's minority government.

East Antrim MP Sammy Wilson said any attempt to "placate Dublin and the EU" by allowing Northern Ireland to have different customs rules from Britain would jeopardise the agreement to prop up the Tories.

Source

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

EU will refuse UK's Brexit demands if Ireland is not happy with plans for border, says Donald Tusk

Quote:

The European Council President, Donald Tusk, effectively handed Dublin a veto over progressing the talks onto future trade next month – the Prime Minister’s priority in the negotiations.

“Let me say very clearly. If the UK offer is unacceptable for Ireland, it will also be unacceptable for the EU,” Mr Tusk said at a press conference alongside the Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar in Dublin.

Mr Varadkar added that while the “best option” to avoid a hard border in Ireland after Brexit – a major sticking point in the negotiations so far – would be for the UK to remain in the customs union, he recognises this is not Ms May’s desire.

He added: “As the British Government has ruled that option out it must offer credible, concrete and workable solutions that guarantee that there will be no hard border whatever the outcome of the negotiations.

“As we discussed today the period between now and the European council meeting in two weeks’ time will be crucial – indeed the next couple of days. So we don’t have long but I believe that with the right engagement and with the right political will we can reach an agreement on the way ahead.”

The intervention by Mr Tusk and the Irish Prime Minister sets the scene for the coming days, in which Ms May will have to offer concrete proposals on the issue of the Irish border within days.

And on Monday, she is expected to meet Jean-Claude Juncker ahead of this month’s crucial EU summit, where it will be decided whether the negotiations can advance to phase two – discussions on a future relationship and trading agreement.
[...]
On Thursday the DUP threatened to rethink its deal with the Conservatives as Sammy Wilson, one of the party’s 10 MPs in Westminster, said they would not accept any moves that would see Northern Ireland “treated differently than the rest of the UK”.

The stark warning followed reports that further powers could be devolved to Belfast to allow rules in areas such as agriculture and energy to be aligned with the EU, rather the London.

The move is an attempt to meet the Irish government’s demand for a cast-iron guarantee there will be no return to a hard border with Norther Ireland, which it fears would be inevitable by new trade barriers.

“If there is any hint that, in order to placate Dublin and the EU, they’re prepared to have Northern Ireland treated differently than the rest of the United Kingdom, then they can’t rely on our vote,” Mr Wilson said.

“They have to recognise that, if this is about treating Northern Ireland differently, or leaving us half in the EU, dragging along behind regulations which change in Dublin, it’s not on.”

He added: “If their support for the Union diminishes, then our support will not be there.”

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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

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