47
   

Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Lash
 
  0  
Fri 1 Dec, 2017 12:27 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-european-capital-of-culture-uk-cancelled-leeds-eu-banned-a8071261.html%3famp

Britain will not be allowed to host the European Capital of Culture as planned in 2023 after Brexit, despite the scheme being open to countries that aren’t in the EU, Brussels has said.

The UK had been scheduled to host the capital in 2023, with candidate cities including Leeds, Dundee, Nottingham, Milton Keynes and Belfast/Derry having prepared bids at taxpayers’ expense.

However the European Commission, which administers the scheme, said in a letter to the British Government reported by Politico Europe that UK access would be “discontinued” following the Brexit vote.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2017 12:48 pm
@Lash,
Since that was reported here already more than a week ago - why do you mention it again, additionally without a personal comment?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 1 Dec, 2017 01:07 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Just in case ... Wink

An EU law, decided in 2014 by all member states, including the UK, ruled you have to be in the EU, the EEA or a candidate to join in order to take part in the competition. (> DECISION No 445/2014/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 16 April 2014)

Thus, cities in e.g. Norway, Iceland, Turkey and Serbia have held or will hold capital of culture status.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2017 01:20 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I have to laugh. You’re policing my posts on the thread I started pretty stridently. LOL.

You have really done a great job supplying pertinent articles, one or two that don’t even support your own opinion, so kudos.

I did read back just a very little bit to see if it had been recently posted, but I obviously didn’t read far enough.

I just ran across it and wanted to add it for anyone interested. I don’t really have a strong opinion about it, so no comment.

I’ve sort of stepped away for the most part, but I look in frequently. Lots of great articles and interesting commentary.

0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  0  
Fri 1 Dec, 2017 02:31 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote Walter:
Quote:
If such would be done in my state, the state would do it via the Permanent Representation of the State North Rhine-Westphalia to the European Union . If a party, not in our state's government (we've a coalition government, conservative [CDU] and liberals [FDP]) wanted to tell something to other EU-countries, they would use either our state's representation or ... do it as is discussed here.

Got any examples in Germany or anywhere in the EU of a member of a legislature-not a member of the executive government, but a simple legislator who is now the head of a party, (as opposed to holding an actual executive governmental position)-sends a letter to the head of state of any other EU country flat out instructing them how they are allowed to deal with their government?

Incidentally, I don't know if Northern Ireland has the right-or should have the right-to remain in the EU and also in the UK or not. That's for the Northern Irish, the UK and the EU to thrash out among themselves. I just don't see where a legislator no longer in any governmental executive position gets off telling the heads of other countries what they may do, let alone 27 heads of state.

Her letter might at least have made some sense when she was First Minister. Since she is no longer First Minister, governmentally speaking, she's a simple legislator. Who doesn't get to tell heads of other states what they may do, as she has no official authority to back it up.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2017 02:50 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
IGot any examples in Germany or anywhere in the EU ...
If I had jad one, I would have pointed to that and hadn't worded my response as I did. ("If such would be done in my state ...") But I'm rather sure that such happens - NGO's do it, so why not leaders of political parties?

Blickers wrote:
Incidentally, I don't know if Northern Ireland has the right-or should have the right-to remain in the EU and also in the UK or not. That's for the Northern Irish, the UK and the EU to thrash out among themselves. I just don't see where a legislator no longer in any governmental executive position gets off telling the heads of other countries what they may do, let alone 27 heads of state.
The EU has nothing to do how the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland organises the countries of the union.

But there will be a land border between an EU-country and the UK after the Brexit - that's what all this is about, and the consequences ...
Blickers
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2017 11:39 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote Walter:
Quote:
NGO's do it, so why not leaders of political parties?

NGOs do not pretend to represent their whole country, as Foster is doing here. Foster was the head of state some months ago, in which case the letter might make sense if she wrote it then. She is the head of state no longer, but that letter to 27 heads of foreign nations implies that she intends to be regarded as having the authority she used to have when she actually was in a position of governmental authority.

Quote Walter:
Quote:
The EU has nothing to do how the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland organises the countries of the union.

Didn't imply they did, but if one of the UK countries applies for admission, the EU will have to decide whether to accept or reject the application, or even if the application could be considered legitimate in the first place.

PS: Foster's anti-EU stance is going down in popularity over there. If the majority of people in Northern Ireland want in to the EU, and get joined by a lot of people in Scotland, things could get very interesting as regards the UK union.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 12:47 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Didn't imply they did, but if one of the UK countries applies for admission, the EU will have to decide whether to accept or reject the application, or even if the application could be considered legitimate in the first place.
No. (The Treaty on the European Union states that any European country may apply for membership [with a couple of "ifs"] - Northern Ireland may be whatsoever in the UK, but it's not an independent European country. Until now.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 12:50 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
PS: Foster's anti-EU stance is going down in popularity over there. If the majority of people in Northern Ireland want in to the EU, and get joined by a lot of people in Scotland, things could get very interesting as regards the UK union.
Northern Ireland had voted to remain in the EU Referendum by a majority of 56% to 44%.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 12:52 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
She is the head of state no longer, but that letter to 27 heads of foreign nations implies that she intends to be regarded as having the authority she used to have when she actually was in a position of governmental authority.
Actually, her MP's vote in London is needed by the UK government, regardless her position in the NI-government.
Blickers
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2017 12:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
MPs in London don't generally address letters personally to other heads of state. That kind of address is more correctly reserved for other heads of state.

If she had written letter back when she was First Minister, it might have been somewhat acceptable for her to address international communications to 27 heads of other states as to how Northern Ireland is to be treated by them tradewise. But she was no longer the political head of the Northern Ireland government when she wrote them.

Foster's letters were nothing more than an attempt by her to send a message that she really is still the First Minister, the vacating of the position was just a technicality.
lmur
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2017 05:45 am
Article from Irish TV referencing both the border issue and the current apparent chaos in the Tory Party. The 'Leave Means Leave' wing of the party seem to have put forward no solutions except "**** 'em. Let's get out and hang the consequences.'
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/1203/924621-brexit-hardliner-demand-more-from-may-over-eu/
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2017 06:21 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Foster's letters were nothing more than an attempt by her to send a message that she really is still the First Minister, the vacating of the position was just a technicality.

I still think that such is at least doubtful. But perhaps some EU-leaders really don't look at the letterhead
Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/0skYnCn.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 3 Dec, 2017 06:38 am
@lmur,
What might have been forgotten by some: many of the rights currently enjoyed by Irish nationals in the UK exist only because they are EU citizens.

Brexit puts special rights for Irish citizens in UK ‘at risk’


The Irish Government has published its priorities for Brexit, outlined what they believe to be the key risks and suggestions to mitigate these risks: Brexit - Ireland's Priorities (pdf)
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Mon 4 Dec, 2017 12:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The letterhead lists the DUP and the symbol of the Northern Ireland Assembly. Since in parliamentary systems the leader of the majority party in the legislature is the head of state, that symbol is ambiguous.

Not at all ambiguous was the text of the letter which instructed EU heads of state how to regard Northern Ireland's EU status, which would only make sense coming from a head of state. The letter was an attempt by Foster to pretend that she still is the de facto First Minister of Ireland.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 4 Dec, 2017 12:10 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
The letterhead lists the DUP and the symbol of the Northern Ireland Assembly. Since in parliamentary systems the leader of the majority party in the legislature is the head of state, that symbol is ambiguous.
??? Who told you that?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 4 Dec, 2017 12:30 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Not at all ambiguous was the text of the letter which instructed EU heads of state how to regard Northern Ireland's EU status, which would only make sense coming from a head of state. The letter was an attempt by Foster to pretend that she still is the de facto First Minister of Ireland.
Besides that QEII is still the head of state in the UK, how should political parties communicate with other EU-countries' leaders in your opinion?

I agree that it is usually done just in speeches - "we appeal to all EU-countries' governments" - but never before a country left the EU, and the Northern Ireland/Ireland situation really is something special, for all sides.

The lack of progress to sort out the problem of the Irish border, could mean that the Brexit negotiations today can’t move on to the second stage, which is all about trade and Britain’s future relationship with Europe.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 4 Dec, 2017 05:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Breaking news: Britain agrees Northern Ireland can keep EU regulations after Brexit, leaked draft agreement suggests

But even if that is true - there's still Parliament.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 4 Dec, 2017 06:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
According to various media, Theresa May has a 50-50 chance of coming home from Brussels with a deal on sufficient progress today, the European Parliament's chief negotiator, Guy Verhofstadt, has said.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 4 Dec, 2017 06:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The British government appears to have bowed to the Republic of Ireland’s demand that Northern Ireland will not diverge from key EU laws and regulations in the future so as to ensure that a hard border does not return to the island.

According to sources, MEPs were told by the chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, that Theresa May had conceded after days of intense talks that the province would be treated as a special case with “continued regulatory alignment” between the north and south of the island after Brexit.

A draft of the text of a 15-page joint agreement between the European commission and the British government is said to include a commitment in paragraph 48 that “in the absence of agreed solutions the UK will ensure that there continues to be continued regulatory alignment” with the internal market and customs union.

It is understood Ireland sees the phrase “regulatory alignment” as providing the highest degree of comfort to both sides, allowing talks to move to the next phase while at the same time giving room for manouevre for negotiations in the second phase.
The Guardian
 

Related Topics

THE BRITISH THREAD II - Discussion by jespah
FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION - Discussion by Mapleleaf
The United Kingdom's bye bye to Europe - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
Sinti and Roma: History repeating - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
[B]THE RED ROSE COUNTY[/B] - Discussion by Mathos
Leaving today for Europe - Discussion by cicerone imposter
So you think you know Europe? - Discussion by nimh
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.07 seconds on 01/01/2025 at 11:40:34