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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 16 May, 2017 08:10 am
@Olivier5,
They appear to be doubling down on already bad known bets.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2017 08:13 am
@georgeob1,
Oh don't be so gloomy all the time...
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2017 08:21 am
@Olivier5,
I'm not that at all. I would like to see a more successful and United federal Europe, but fear that the accumulated patchwork of treaties, through which they have bypassed sometimes difficult popular issues on the road to unification, has left Europe with some serious and divisive internal issues.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2017 08:29 am
@georgeob1,
Yes, you are gloomy. You've been arguing right here that the EU needs to take a hard look at itself rather than bash the Brits for exiting. The moment Germany and France agree to do just that, you cry that they will OF COURSE mess up again...

You're a Euro basher, just as JTT or Izzy are systematic US bashers. The kind of people who try to make their own brain pointless.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 16 May, 2017 09:23 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Yes, you are gloomy. You've been arguing right here that the EU needs to take a hard look at itself rather than bash the Brits for exiting. The moment Germany and France agree to do just that, you cry that they will OF COURSE mess up again...


It does not appear to me that Merkel and Macron did agree to do just that. I think you are inferring things that were not in the news reports. Time will tell. I hope their pledge for ever closer union will include some examination of the fundamentals to which I referred. So far my string impression is that it does not.

You appear to be unable to deal in a straightforward way with disagreement.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Tue 16 May, 2017 09:37 am
@georgeob1,
I'm just amused by your constant gloom and doom concerning the EU. As I said, it's not different from JTT's constant vomiting of America. It says more about you (or JTT) than it says about the EU (or America, respectively).
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 19 May, 2017 07:11 am
@Olivier5,
UK to start formal Brexit negotiations on 19 June
Quote:
The EU’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier has pencilled in 19 June for the first formal day of talks with Britain about its withdrawal from the European Union, in what are being billed as the most important negotiations in the country’s history.

That highly symbolic morning, Barnier will face British Brexit secretary, David Davis, for the first day of an arduous 15 months of negotiations to hammer out the terms of the UK’s exit.

It is understood that the European commission’s Brexit taskforce, led by Barnier, shared the proposed date with key figures in Brussels last week.

... ... ...
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 19 May, 2017 08:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That's one job I don't want.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Sun 28 May, 2017 07:41 pm
Seems like Merkel just fired a shot across our bow.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN18O0JK

Germany takes their fate into their own hands... Whose hands has it been in?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 28 May, 2017 10:05 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Germany takes their fate into their own hands... Whose hands has it been in?
She said now that "Europe can no longer completely rely on its allies". - In January, she said "Ich denke, wir Europäer haben unser Schicksal selber in der Hand." (I think that we Europeans have our fate now in our hands)

Seems, she now got real experiences with the new president.
I'm not sure why you post that here, because her attitude towards Brexit hasn't changed.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 28 May, 2017 11:06 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Seems, she now got real experiences with the new president.
I've watched her speech again:
"The era in which we could rely completely on others is gone, at least partially. I have experienced that over the last several days."
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 29 May, 2017 12:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It's on the frontpages of the (more) conservative papers in the UK:
Quote:
http://i.imgur.com/Jt3PJk6.jpg

Quote:
http://i.imgur.com/fjbnCcP.jpg
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 29 May, 2017 01:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I post it here because global relationships are impacted by this statement.

Reuters quote by Merkel:

"I have experienced this in the last few days," she said. "And that is why I can only say that we Europeans must really take our fate into our own hands - of course in friendship with the United States of America, in friendship with Great Britain and as good neighbors wherever that is possible also with other countries, even with Russia."
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 29 May, 2017 02:15 am
@Lash,
[quote="Lash"I post it here because global relationships are impacted by this statement.[/quote]Yes. Her speech was surprising, isn't it? All media in nearly all countries reported about it - usually she's more quiet, especially regarding the relations of EU and Germany to the USA and Trump.

The G7- meeting, the previous NATO- and EU-meetings, showed a new unity within EU-leaders. Hopefully, it can be transformed and isn't just a reaction to Trump's policy and behaviour.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 29 May, 2017 03:25 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Reuters quote by Merkel:

"I have experienced this in the last few days," she said. "And that is why I can only say that we Europeans must really take our fate into our own hands - of course in friendship with the United States of America, in friendship with Great Britain and as good neighbors wherever that is possible also with other countries, even with Russia."
Meanwhile, a video of her speech is online (with a correct translation): Angela Merkel: ‘EU can't rely completely on the US and UK’ – video

It was at an election campaign by the Bavarian CSU (the "sister-party" of Merkel's CDU) in a beer tent at a local fun fair/folk festival in a Munich suburb.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 29 May, 2017 05:33 am
I still wonder whose hands Germany's fate has been in if not Germany's own. Odd statement.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 29 May, 2017 06:05 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I still wonder whose hands Germany's fate has been in if not Germany's own. Odd statement.
What translation did you use - if you are referring to yesterday's speech by Merkel - to get that she said something like that? (Or to what part of her speech do you refer id not to those already quoted above.)

But whatever. Unfortunately, even the opposition gave her kind of applaud to what she said. ("Kind of", because we are in pre-campain times already. And it really makes my heart bleed that I have to agree with her again.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 29 May, 2017 06:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Regarding the topic of this thread, from an opinion by The Guardian:
Angela Merkel: this is what the leader of the free world should act like
Quote:
Angela Merkel – or “leader of the free world” as she is now to be known – did not wait long to see the back of Donald Trump before she made it clear that things have changed. She told a rally of 2,500 people in Munich where she kicked off her campaign to be re-elected that the EU must now be prepared to look after itself, it could no longer depend on the UK or America. “The times in which we could completely depend on others are, to a certain extent, over … I’ve experienced that in the last few days . We Europeans have to take fate into our own hands.”

This is a truly dramatic statement from a leader who doesn’t do drama. She is not going to be holding Trump’s hand any time soon. He may be relieved to hear that, but then the underestimation of Merkel as a dowdy physicist has often allowed her to run rings around egotistical male leaders.
[...]
Of course not everyone likes her. The Irish, the Portuguese , the Greeks ,the Spanish and the Italians have felt the force of her pushing through stark austerity measures as the price of EU membership. At one point Greek protestors portrayed with a Hitler moustache. Her expansionary politics , whereby every other country should seek to be as wealthy as Germany, have come at a huge price to countries she sees as fiscally irresponsible. Critics in Germany says she achieved a kind “paralysed consent”. They complain about the number of opinion polls she has commissioned and her methodical, scientific way of dealing with politics.
[...]
And look where she is now, unlike our prime minister, able to oppose Trump directly and to say his America is not a friend of Europe.

What an extraordinary woman. There are no problems, she says, only “tasks” to be solved, as she sits rapidly texting in meetings. Refusing to see herself as a female leader, she prefers to think of herself as part of a class of political heavyweights. Increasingly she is in a class of her own and watching her, one thought comes to mind: This is what strong and stable actually looks like.

Lash
 
  -1  
Mon 29 May, 2017 06:37 am
Uh oh. Brits are pretty upset with Theresa May. Looks like Corbyn sorts out Brexit:

https://youtu.be/HxN1STgQXW8

Theresa May Liar tops British pop charts.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 29 May, 2017 08:15 am
@Lash,
The Liberal Democrats (here: Nick Clegg) and some from the Labour party claim that the UK will lose access to EU's crime-fighting database after Brexit.

In 2015 the than Home Office minister James Brokenshire (PM May was head of the Home Office in those days) hailed the system as "another vital weapon in the fight against global crime and terrorism".
But since the database is an EU creation governed by the European Court of Justice, no country outside the Schengen zone and the EU has full access. (The USA and Australia have association agreements with Europol, but their police cannot search the database directly.)

This Brexit risk might be solved - similar the participation with Europol and Eurojus, but the legal and political complexities need some compromisses from the UK, and the EU to accept another bureaucracy, namely a new independent arbitration body (which would assess rulings made by the EU court)
0 Replies
 
 

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