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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Wed 10 May, 2017 09:05 pm
@Kolyo,
The numbers might be slightly off, from an article I saw yesterday, but they're ballpark.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 11 May, 2017 12:17 am
The Brexit trap that's closing on Britons who live in Europe
Quote:
UK citizens who have made a home in the EU face an uncertain future – and the government isn’t listening to them

Brexit negotiations will leave UK citizens in Europe in a far worse position than EU citizens in the UK, a group of British professionals living in Germany has warned.
...
Briton David Hole, who has lived and practised law in Germany since 1993, pointed out that the fact that EU citizens in the UK will still be part of the union will put them in a significantly stronger position than their British counterparts in Europe.

“You regularly see the 3 million EU citizens in the UK and 1.2 million UK citizens in the EU in the same sentence as if they are in mirror positions,” he said. “They are not. UK citizens will lose all their rights, EU citizens do not. We are in a far worse position.”

UK citizens living in Europe will end up with fewer rights than EU citizens living in the UK after Brexit and fear they could be “locked in” to the country where they have moved to, it has emerged.

The rights UK nationals acquired under EU law to live, work, set up a business or provide services will all fall away on Brexit day, a lawyer told a group of about 50 British nationals at a meeting in Munich on Monday. This was the second meeting of the impromptu group, which represents just a sliver of the estimated 18,000 Britons settled in Bavaria, 6,000 of whom are in Munich.
...
“EU citizens won’t lose their rights, they simply won’t be able to use them while they live in the UK,” David Hole said. “They will still have the right to live in another EU country, the right to work there, the right to freedom of movement, the right to have their qualifications recognised.

“Our position is we will have none of these,” he went on. “The 1.2 million UK citizens living in Europe will lose all their acquired EU rights after Brexit. How we address that remains a question here.”
... ... ...
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Thu 11 May, 2017 12:29 am
@Kolyo,
The poll may have oriented them to these questions, no? In any case one should expect many Britons to be seeing things through the brexit prism these days. It's only natural.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 11 May, 2017 09:09 am
Changing Economic Fortunes
by Simon Kennedy - Bloomberg
May 10 2017

Once plagued by Greece’s fiscal crisis and a populist uprising, European Central Bank President Draghi now oversees an accelerating euro-area economy where political risks are subsiding. By contrast, Bank of England Governor Mark Carney sees signs that Brexit is slowing the British economy.

The change in fortunes is reflected in monetary policy outlooks on each side of the English Channel, write Bloomberg’s Alessandro Speciale and Jill Ward. Carney is preparing to leave interest rates lower than they might have been without Brexit, while Draghi is nearing the moment he can start tightening monetary policy. [...]

An irony is that some Britons who campaigned for Brexit argued it was necessary to break away from a failing economy. Now the International Monetary Fund is predicting the euro-area will outpace the U.K. in 2018 for the first time since 2010, albeit only just.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Thu 11 May, 2017 10:34 am
@Olivier5,
A brief and small lead after seven years in trail is hardly a breakthrough. Germany is thriving on exports, despite occasional labor shortages, while rigidly regulated labor markets in France Italy and Spain yield chronic high unemployment, particularly among the young. GDP growth rates remain fairly low.

I don't claim to know if Brexit will end up helping or hurting the UK economy - both outcomes appear possible. However it is too early to call that result.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 11 May, 2017 11:28 am
@georgeob1,
Certainly it's way too early to tell for the UK, but things appear to be improving overal for the eurozone.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Thu 11 May, 2017 01:36 pm
@Olivier5,
I agree, but it is long overdue, and much of the sclerosis, particularly in overregulated labor markets, remains.
centrox
 
  5  
Thu 11 May, 2017 02:27 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
overregulated labor markets

If by that you mean workers' rights, minimum wages, no restrictions on unions, etc, we'd rather keep them, thank you very much.
centrox
 
  4  
Thu 11 May, 2017 02:29 pm
Sclerosis my ass.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Thu 11 May, 2017 02:29 pm
@centrox,
That is indeed your choice. However slow growth and widespread unemployment, particularly among the young are the results. The long term effects may be worse.
centrox
 
  4  
Thu 11 May, 2017 03:07 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

That is indeed your choice. However slow growth and widespread unemployment, particularly among the young are the results. The long term effects may be worse.

We have workers rights in the UK and we are not sclerotic, nor is Germany.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Thu 11 May, 2017 03:18 pm
@centrox,
centrox wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

That is indeed your choice. However slow growth and widespread unemployment, particularly among the young are the results. The long term effects may be worse.

We have workers rights in the UK and we are not sclerotic, nor is Germany.


Well the UK economy was indeed rather sclerotic before Maggie Thatcher ended the socialism there. I'll agree Germany appears uniquely able to couple labor unions and economic agility in a way that other nations including my own and the UK don't. I've dealt with labor unions in companies I have run: their first effect is to destroy any sense of mission or achievement in the organizations they infect. The "worker's rights" they advocate are the rules of an anthill, and they end up killing the industries infested by them.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  4  
Thu 11 May, 2017 11:07 pm
Georgeob, you sound just like a far right rentamouth.
Builder
 
  1  
Fri 12 May, 2017 01:52 am
@centrox,
He lost me at "maggie thatcher ended socialism there"....
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 12 May, 2017 06:17 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
much of the sclerosis, particularly in overregulated labor markets, remains.

We're getting there. Spain went through massive labor law reforms circa 2010 and France is heading that way under Macron.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Fri 12 May, 2017 07:23 am
@Olivier5,
If so that's a good sign, however unemployment remains high in both countries.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Fri 12 May, 2017 09:25 am
Reported by several media, here the AFP version via yahoo Australia
Quote:
Brussels (AFP) - Brexit-bound Britain is blocking the launch of an EU military headquarters because it opposes any suggestion that the unit would have an active operational role, EU diplomatic sources said Friday.

After months of tough negotiations, all 28 member states approved plans in March for a small grouping in Brussels to coordinate three of the bloc's overseas training operations.

Turning the agreement into a legal text however has run into trouble, with proposals to call it an "Operational Headquarters" being a "red flag" for Britain ahead of its June 8 election and the start of the Brexit talks, the diplomatic sources said.

"We are still trying to find a compromise with our British friends on the legal position so that this structure can be set up," said one of sources who asked not to be named.

"They are extremely sensitive to the elections and how it might be seen back in the UK," the source added.

British officials in Brussels declined to comment.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 13 May, 2017 07:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
An exclusive interview in the Daily Telegraph (paywall!): Brussels could end up paying Britain a Brexit divorce bill, says Boris Johnson
Quote:
Boris Johnson said the EU could be forced to pay Britain a Brexit divorce bill as he blasted their negotiators for trying to "bleed this country white".

The Foreign Secretary claimed the UK had "very good arguments" to demand money from Brussels after making major contributions to European assets.

It is expected to cost the UK up to £84bn to settle its liabilities when the country leaves the EU - a figure Mr Johnson branded "absurd".

He said Britain could "definitely" walk away from negotiations without paying as he accused European officials of "trying it on".

He told The Daily Telegraph he thought Britain may even end up receiving a payment, saying: "I think there are very good arguments.

"There are assets, I don't want to get too much into the detail of the negotiation but there are assets that we share, that we have paid for over the years and there will need to be a proper computation of the value of those assets.

"I certainly think the bill that's been presented at the moment is absurd."

Mr Johnson said the EU "is ruthless in its negotiating techniques", citing a "shameful" leak of details of a meeting between Ms May, European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker and Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier.

"They are going to try to bleed this country white with their bill," he said.

"The logic behind this bill is absolutely preposterous. We could definitely walk away."
Source

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 14 May, 2017 02:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Millionaire who bankrolled Vote Leave vows to spend more to give May 'army of pro-Brexit MPs'
Quote:
A multimillionaire donor who backed Vote Leave in the EU referendum is now looking to fund a new campaign to oust almost 140 pro-Remain MPs.

City asset manager Jeremy Hosking, who donated more than £1.5m to the pro-Brexit cause prior to last June's vote, said he wanted to make sure Theresa May had an “army” of pro-Brexit MPs behind her after the 8 June General Election.

He told The Observer that he was willing to hand £5,000 each to Conservative candidates in 138 mainly Labour-held seats where the majority of voters supported Brexit, but the MP voted Remain.


READ MORE
Tom Watson admits Tories on course for landslide general election win
The candidates would have to apply for funding – with Mr Hosking willing to spend a total of £690,000.

[...]

Mr Hosking’s offer comes after the Best for Britain group, led by pro-EU campaigner Gina Miller, managed to raise £300,000 through crowdfunding to support candidates opposing an “extreme Brexit”.

That number has since grown, with the campaign group raising more than £384,000 of its £395,000 goal.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2017 07:42 am
Merkel and Macron agree to draw roadmap to deeper European Union integration
May 15, 2017. REUTERS
By Paul Carrel and Michel Rose | BERLIN

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and new French President Emmanuel Macron agreed on Monday to draw up a roadmap to deeper European Union integration and opened the door to changing the bloc's treaties to facilitate ambitious reform.

A day after Macron's inauguration, the two leaders struck a consensual tone in Berlin after talks in which they sought to reinvigorate the Franco-German relationship and the European project that has been shaken by Britain's planned exit.

The run-up to the meeting had been marked by a row among senior German politicians over how to respond to Macron's calls for closer EU integration, with some concerned that Berlin would be asked to pay for struggling states that resist reforms.

Merkel said that Germany needs France to succeed, emphasizing that "Europe will only do well if there is a strong France".

"We agreed that we want to develop a road map for the European Union's medium-term perspectives," she said in a joint news conference with Macron.

"There is a common conviction that we cannot only deal with Britain's exit (from the EU), but instead that we must above all think about how we can deepen the existing European Union and especially the euro zone."

With Germany's economy -- Europe's largest -- outperforming that of France, the traditional Franco-German motor at the heart of the EU that has often misfired in recent years. Monday's meeting was an effort to inject some dynamism into the partnership.

Crucially, both leaders said they were open to the idea of changing the EU's treaties.

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, an arch conservative who has come to personify Berlin's focus on fiscal rectitude, had suggested that Macron's idea of creating a budget and finance minister for the euro zone was unrealistic because it would require politically thorny changes to the EU treaty.

But both leaders said they could tackle treaty change.

"In the past, the subject of treaty change was a French taboo. It will no longer be the case," said the French president, who earlier arrived at the chancellery to cheers from a crowd chanting "Macron! Macron!" and waving European flags.

Merkel said that, from Germany's viewpoint, treaty change would be possible, adding: "I would be ready to do this, but first we will work on what we want to reform."
 

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