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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Mon 8 May, 2017 08:41 pm
I'd be interesting in seeing a poll of the British public on how much support Le Pen had in the UK. I would think she'd fail the sniff test among educated people, but, these days, with the way the Daily Express was just ramming her down readers' throats, who knows!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 8 May, 2017 08:58 pm
@Kolyo,
I think elections are more complicated than that. Look what happened in our country.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Mon 8 May, 2017 09:02 pm
@Kolyo,
Kolyo wrote:

I'd be interesting in seeing a poll


Darn, found the typo 4 minutes after the edit option went away.

"interesting" --> "interested" (of course!)
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  2  
Mon 8 May, 2017 10:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I think elections are more complicated than that.


Looked pretty straight-forward to me, CI.

Quote:
Look what happened in our country.


It's a nation. You share the country with several other nations.

I hear talk of building walls to keep them out.

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 8 May, 2017 11:12 pm
Today, by the way, is Europe Day 2017:
Quote:
The Declaration had several distinct aims, which it tackled together:
- It marked the birth of Europe as a political entity
It aimed to make war between Member States impossible
- It encouraged world peace
- It would transform Europe by a 'step by step' process (building through sectoral supranational communities) leading to the unification of Europe, including both East and West Europe separated by the Iron Curtain
- The world's first international anti-cartel agency
- It created a single market across the Community
- This, starting with the coal and steel sector, would revitalise the whole European economy by similar community processes
- It claimed to improve the world economy and of the developing countries, such as those in Africa.
Source
Builder
 
  2  
Mon 8 May, 2017 11:49 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Interesting aims. Let's take a peek at the reality, though.

It marked the birth of Europe as a political entity

As opposed to several individual nations, with political entities unique to their own nations.

It aimed to make war between Member States impossible

By financially crippling them? Or by creating an overbearing heirarchy?

- It encouraged world peace

By unilaterally invading other nations?

- It would transform Europe by a 'step by step' process (building through sectoral supranational communities) leading to the unification of Europe, including both East and West Europe separated by the Iron Curtain

It certainly did transform Europe. Some nations are now impoverished to the point of austerity, while other nations have reaped the benefits.

- The world's first international anti-cartel agency

While the banker families still call the shots.

- It created a single market across the Community

A single currency was the goal. To enable a level playing field. Didn't happen.

- This, starting with the coal and steel sector, would revitalise the whole European economy by similar community process

Widespread austerity, massive underemployment, and social unrest, was the result.

- It claimed to improve the world economy and of the developing countries, such as those in Africa.

The African nations continue to be ass-raped for their resources. Libya being the prime example.

The west, on the other hand, experienced the orchestrated heist mislabelled the GFC, while the EU babbled on that nobody saw it coming.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 9 May, 2017 12:05 am
@Builder,
You did notice that this was in 1950, didn't you? (The European Coal and Steel Community was established in 1951)
Builder
 
  2  
Tue 9 May, 2017 12:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Does the date really matter, Walter?
'
Did any of those aims actually come to pass?

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 9 May, 2017 12:34 am
@Builder,
Well, the Schuman Declaration was a development of the idea of the International Authority for the Ruhr already discussed at the London Conference.

Plans usually aren't 100% transferred to reality, but we got the Coal and Steel Community shortly afterwards, the the EEC of the six, then ...
Builder
 
  1  
Tue 9 May, 2017 01:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,
.....then neoliberalism, then globalism... and then???
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 9 May, 2017 04:35 am
@Kolyo,
Kolyo wrote:

I'd be interesting in seeing a poll of the British public on how much support Le Pen had in the UK. I would think she'd fail the sniff test among educated people, but, these days, with the way the Daily Express was just ramming her down readers' throats, who knows!

She was covered by the UK press far more than Macron or any other candidate. The Murdock papers in particular are all in love withher.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 9 May, 2017 08:48 am
@Olivier5,
Americans, who want to get some insight knowledge, can make the NYT's Brexit means Brexit tour:
Quote:
The 2016 referendum on the European Union divided the United Kingdom and split traditional political allegiances, as the British population decided, after more than 40 years, to leave. It is still unclear what Brexit will ultimately mean for the U.K., politically and economically. On this six-day journey to London with New York Times experts, examine the historic implications of a historic vote.

Prime Minister Theresa May said that “Brexit means Brexit,” but what does this really mean for the British and the international community beyond? Did the voters really know what they were voting for? Does the British government have the power to begin the separation from the E.U.? And what of the impact on Europe and the strength of the union? With the guidance of Steve Erlanger, the London bureau chief of The New York Times, and other experts, meet with politicians, journalists and historians to discuss Britain’s decision to leave the E.U. and the financial, legal and social implications for Britain, Europe and the world.
For $5,995 [£4,650 / 5,500 €] per person you get the chance to "examine the historic implications of a historic vote".
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 9 May, 2017 09:28 am
Some interesting listening on Monocle radio over the last few nights.

https://monocle.com/radio/topics/european-politics/

Something that struck my ear again was the generational gap between groups of voters. Brexit voters - old. Macron voters - young. Much as it was in the US. Trump voters - old. The upside - younger voters voting for hope. The downside - younger voters continue to be less likely to vote.

as usual, I can't recommend monocle enough to people interested in international perspectives
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 9 May, 2017 12:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The British voters will have a chance to rethink and adjust their positions in the forthcoming parliamentary elections. Clearly PM May's action in scheduling the election is indicative of her confidence ( prescient or not) of a favorable outcome for her and her party. Such an outcome will strengthen her hand in the coming Brexit negotiations. A defeat, or significantly smaller majority, could well derail the whole Brexit process. My impression so far is that the PM's confidence appears justified.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 9 May, 2017 12:28 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
My impression so far is that the PM's confidence appears justified.
In the recent local elections, Theresa May’s party gained more than 550 council seats and won the mayoral races in the West Midlands and Tees Valley, areas Labour would usually see as its heartlands.
UKIP lost nearly all seats = close to 4 million people who voted UKIP in 2015 will switch to May as a means of securing Brexit.
[NB: the Conservatives have dropped their party name from some campaign materials. It's now: "Theresa May: Strong, Stable Leadership in the National Interest" but including no mention of the Tories.]
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 9 May, 2017 02:05 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Britain has a long tradition of being - almost - a part of Europe, and standing off from continental rivalries. I believe that was a factor in Britain's late and somewhat half-hearted entry into the Union. I also suspect it is a factor in the current situation.

I'll readily confess that I don't fully understand the workings of the EU Parliament and how, or to what degree, it addresses the appetites of member countries for democratic responses to divisive issues such as immigration. My impression is that various treaties administered by the bureaucracy and the Commission of leading governments calls these shots. If so, I suspect that the next step towards "ever closer union" must include more real supra-national, democratic processes to deal with future governance. That may be very hard to achieve in a world in which both the member nations and the Union claim, or pretend to be, sovereign.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 10 May, 2017 05:26 am
@georgeob1,
Brexit: Media coverage of EU referendum ‘acrimonious and divisive’, finds report
Quote:
After analysing more than 15,000 articles published online by 20 national news outlets, researchers at King’s College London found that most coverage on immigration was framed, primarily by Leave campaign leaders and the Leave-supporting press, in “almost entirely negative” terms.

Language invoking fear was increasingly prominent throughout the campaign, with both sides adopting the “Project Fear” label over the 10-week campaign, the report found.

Coverage of immigration tripled over the course of the 10-week campaign, rising faster than any other political issue.

Almost half of all referendum-related articles in the final four weeks which referred to the economy also referred to immigration. That compared with just over a quarter during the first six weeks, according to the report.

There were more leading front pages about immigration during the campaign than about the economy, with six in 10 of them published by three newspapers — the Daily Express, the Daily Mail and The Daily Telegraph.

Immigration and immigrants were blamed by these outlets for many of the UK’s political, economic and social problems, the report says.

Prominent politicians like Iain Duncan Smith, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, and Nigel Farage all frequently made negative claims about immigration and about the damaging effect of migrants on the UK, which the report adds were “covered copiously and prominently in the press”.

The findings show that three metaphors were dominant in the coverage of refugees and migrants.

Words related to water, like “floodgates” or “waves” were often used along with those used in relation to animals or insects like "flocking" and "swarming".

“Project fear” and “scaremongering” were also widely used during the campaign by both the Leave and Remain camps to predict frightening outcomes should voters decide to opt for the other side.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 10 May, 2017 10:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Nigel Farage dodges question on why he met Julian Assange before abruptly ending interview

The Die Zeit-interview, mentioned in above Independent-report is >here< (in German only).
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 10 May, 2017 12:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I hear similar things from some friends in Munich concerning media reporting and public reactions in Bavaria. My wife and I took a recent boat trip from Bergin up to Finnmark, and we heard similar stories from several Norwegians. Their concerns centered mostly around their schools. In short I don't think these concerns are unique to the UK.
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  2  
Wed 10 May, 2017 09:01 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

She was covered by the UK press far more than Macron or any other candidate. The Murdock papers in particular are all in love withher.


Well fortunately the British people themselves are not. According to a you.gov poll, only 21 percent of Brits thought a win by her would help Britain.

However, I sadly also have to add that only 23 percent thought she would be bad for Britain. The news gets worse. Support for and opposition to le pen seemed to be determined entirely by Brits' views on Brexit. So whether they agreed with le pen on Brexit had more to do with whether they liked her than did the fact that she belonged to a party called the national front.
 

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