Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

@Foofie,

We don't have that much time to spare. Globally we have maybe half a century to get rid of offshores and get back to a State of Law serving ppl not abstract entities with a proper UN. The EU has a decade to become a Federation or let Europe at large become a forgotten memory a dot between China and the US bankrupt litle brother. People are stupid and attached to tribal minutia they can't afford. Hopefully, AI will sets us into place soon. It is already doing it.

1 Reply

@centrox,

centrox wrote:

saab wrote:
the British who were the first to fight against Hitler

Er, the Poles?

He said "fight".

/jk

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Poland_First_To_Fight.jpg

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@Foofie,

I guess Hitler was just being "tribal" then...

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I don't think it matters a lot if Danes, Swedes or any other nationalities want a soft or hard Brexit: that's a decision made by Her Majesty's Government in the UK.

Exactly.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Leaked EU negotiating guidelines show – quelle surprise Wink

– that the bloc of 27 isn’t quite on board with Theresa May’s talk of unity.

Brexit: leaked documents say EU wants Britain kept under European courts

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Barnier will pile up demands ahead of the negotiation. Some will get traction, others not. I would wait for the UK election to discuss anything precise. They may have another PM in 3 months so it makes little sense to negotiate with May's now.

1 Reply

Trends in the EU: The French election. Polling is a snapshot of French support for the EU, globalization, immigration.

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2017/04/french-election-sunday-marine-le-pen-macron-nationalism

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

They may have another PM in 3 months

Highly unlikely.

1 Reply

@saab,

saab wrote:

What kind of crap is that?
There was never ever a question of racism, but a lot about all the laws that EU makes about all kind of things.
That has nothing to do with racism.

This seems very naive at best. Both the Brexit referendum campaign itself and the relentless anti-EU drum beat in the mass print media that preceded it highly focused on the supposed threats which immigration and foreigners posed to Britain, the British way of life, British jobs etc. Whether you call this unrelenting fearmongering about immigrants xenophobia or racism, it had a lot to do with Brexit.

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2016/6/21/9b0dab20514e4f629643f00e451eff0f_18.jpg

https://thetab.com/blogs.dir/90/files/2016/11/feat-600x284.jpg

http://theredcard.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/daily-express-1.jpg

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/pix/Express-cover-montage.jpg

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@nimh,

There's no doubt that elements of racism are involved in the growing resentment of Europeans, and Americans as well to the increasingly unregulated admission of immigrants. However I believe it is very inaccurate and unrealistic to characterize it all, or even most of it, as racism.

Indeed part of the difficulties that the UK and other EU countries are facing is the intolerance of many of the immigrants towards the cultural norms of their new homes. Shouldn't that too be considered as racism?

It seems obvious to me (at least) that a major part of the adverse reaction behind the Brexit vote and the political tumult now ongoing in France, and growing , perhaps just below the surface, in the Scandinavian countries and others in the EU is the perception among the people that they have lost control of their own lives to the prejudgments of a distant government that is neither accountable to them nor responsive to their desires. History is pretty clear on just where those perceptions lead.

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@nimh,

Sorry I cannot find the the reason why I wrote this, but somehow there must have been a misunderstanding along the way, as I know very well that much of the pro Brexit has to do with racism.

Just like in Scandinavia were some people want border controls.
Certain EU people should not be allowed to come in (EU people are people living within EU)
Certain Europeans should not be allowed to come in (Europeans means someone who is not a EU citizen)
Certain religious people should not be allowed to come in

But what to expect from an old woman, who on top of it is naiv, stupid and an asskisser to know what she said a couple of hours/ days ago.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

What kind of crap is that?
There was never ever a question of racism, but a lot about all the laws that EU makes about all kind of things.
That has nothing to do with racism.
That has to do with EU mixing into every little corner of our lifes.
The Scandinavians also complain about all the laws that are made.
Remove laws, that fit our countries and exchange them laws which do not fit, that what is ennoying.

When I read this remark, I thought you meant that although some people were motivated by racism, others were motivated by disgust in overreaching EU laws. Everybody doesn't have to have the same motivation.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Thank you - that is what I meant to say.

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Those UK-citizens, living in EU-Europe who will face life-changing challenges post-Brexit, got another bad news:
Britons abroad for longer than 15 years denied vote in general election

Quote:

Up to 3 million Britons living overseas are to be denied a vote in the general election, the Cabinet Office has confirmed.

In a letter sent to the New Europeans campaign group on Friday, the Cabinet Office said that “unfortunately” British citizens who had lived abroad for longer than 15 years would not be entitled to vote on 8 June.

The letter has prompted a furious reaction from Britons living abroad, and in Europe in particular, with campaign groups accusing the Conservatives of breaking yet another promise.
[...]
Last October the government promised to scrap the current 15-year time limit as part of a bid to strengthen ties with emigrants following the decision to leave the EU.

The plans followed a court battle spearheaded by the second world war veteran Harry Shindler, who fought in the Battle of Anzio in Italy in 1944. The 95-year-old, who moved to Italy to be near his grandson in 1982, has been unable to vote in the UK since 1997 but cannot vote in Italy either.

As recently as February, the constitution minister Chris Skidmore assured Shindler and others the government was on track, telling them “their stake in our country must be respected”.
... ... ...

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Electoral Commission launches inquiry into campaign headed by Nigel Farage and Arron Banks over involvement of data firm
Leave.EU under investigation over EU referendum spending

Quote:

The Electoral Commission has launched an investigation into “potential offences” by Leave.EU over its spending during last year’s Brexit campaign.

The campaign group, which was headed by Nigel Farage and the controversial businessman Arron Banks, is understood to have worked with the data firm Cambridge Analytica, which uses social media to influence voters.

Cambridge Analytica’s involvement was not declared to the election watchdog, which has concluded that Leave.EU has a case to answer. ... ... ...

Cambridge Analytica, which has offices in London, New York and Washington, uses data analysis to build up sophisticated profiles of individuals to predict how they might vote.

It is linked to the US billionaire Robert Mercer and Steve Bannon, Donald Trump’s chief strategist.

The company claims to have played an influential role in the US election by identifying key swing voters.

The Information Commissioner’s Office has already launched an investigation into Cambridge Analytica and its use of voters’ personal data.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

We don't have that much time to spare. Globally we have maybe half a century to get rid of offshores and get back to a State of Law serving ppl not abstract entities with a proper UN. The EU has a decade to become a Federation or let Europe at large become a forgotten memory a dot between China and the US bankrupt litle brother. People are stupid and attached to tribal minutia they can't afford. Hopefully, AI will sets us into place soon. It is already doing it.

And, to all a good night.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I guess Hitler was just being "tribal" then...

I believe that is the conclusion of some. And, your phraseology above ("just being tribal") might be trivializing it in a flippant manner. No one wanted the Jews, so modern technology came up with a solution that didn't exist in the middle ages. That doesn't make the Holocaust anything but genocide; however, in the Nazi belief system, they were refining the pecking order of humanity, and eliminating that which would not "fit in."

Do you think it was a coincidence that Neanderthal disappeared just about the time that dogs were domesticated. Did Neanderthals have a distinct scent?

So, since some of us can murder with impunity, no conscience, no contrition, progressive politics is just so much roasting marshmallows around a campfire. Wasn't it the Defenestration of Prague that resulted in the Thirty Years War. Guess who got the worst of it, to the point of anecdotal incidents of eating the dead, since Wallenstein's army ate all the food in northern Germany.

Now please let me live in peace in the best country in the world. We live in different worlds, and I don't want to associate with your world.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

It's none of my business, as a US citizen, but I think that stinks.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:

I guess Hitler was just being "tribal" then...

I believe that is the conclusion of some. And, your phraseology above ("just being tribal") might be trivializing it in a flippant manner.

Correct: you are trivializing racism by calling it "tribal". It's a much weaker term tham "racist", hence the trivializing effect.

Quote:

No one wanted the Jews, so modern technology came up with a solution that didn't exist in the middle ages. .... So, since some of us can murder with impunity, no conscience, no contrition, progressive politics is just so much roasting marshmallows around a campfire.

Hey, it's human nature to hate, no? At least that's what I hear you saying... Shouldn't you forgive the genocide then?

1 Reply

@ossobucotemp,

Me too.

0 Replies

Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

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