AN ASSAULT ON SCIENCE

@Leadfoot,

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To be fair, it should be noted that it will be an improvement for some. There is an upside to almost everything.

Of course as in longer crop growing season for the uppers US state and Canada just to start with.

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@BillRM,

No. Science tells us that. We can actually measure energy from the sun, absorption of infra red by molecules, atmospheric concentrations, the CO2 released by human activity, etc. We know that humans are a driver of that change because we do measurements. You seem to want to argue just because something has happened one way in the past there is no way to measure if same thing is happening now. We can tell it isn't the same as the past by science.

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@BillRM,

What 20 year pause in temperature increases? If 7 of the 10 warmest years in the last 100 are in the last 10 years how do you pick data points showing there was a pause in warming? It seems to be you cherry picking if you are going to try to present data showing no warming in the last 20 years.

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@parados,

Once more the earth is not a black body and a hundred years is nothing as far as a baseline for the earth temperatures not to mention all the factors that bring into question how meaningful and accurate the earlier temperature readings may be.

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@BillRM,

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Once more the earth is not a black body

What's your point? That energy doesn't enter or leave the earth? That you are completely ignoring all the other calculations involved because you don't want to believe them?

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a hundred years is nothing

100 hundred years includes the previous 20 which you claimed show no sign of warming. Are you arguing that your 20 year argument was less meaningful than one that includes 100 years?

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@parados,

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That energy doesn't enter or leave the earth?

There are all kinds of very large heat sinks when it come to the earth just to start with.

Beginning with the oceans. Energy in does not need to balance energy out over any time frame of the human race.

Next the sun is hardly the only source of energy as for example the sun did not power the moving of the earth plates that had created and broken apart the continents over the ages.

The earth is not a simple system nor is the climate predictable.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

There are all kinds of very large heat sinks when it come to the earth just to start with.

Beginning with the oceans.

Sure.. and there is also a thing called SPACE. Physics is pretty clear. You can't create energy out of nothing. The earth gains energy from the sun and loses energy to space. It seems you want to argue that the laws of thermodynamics don't exist.

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Next the sun is hardly the only source of energy as for example the sun did not power the moving of the earth plates that had created and broken apart the continents over the ages.

Actually, the sun is part of that movement. We just get the energy from the tidal effects. But once again, you want to argue that the laws of thermodynamics don't exist.

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The earth is not a simple system nor is the climate predictable.

The earth is not a simple system but climate is statistically predictable. Your argument is that we can't predict precisely so therefore we can't predict anything. That is utter nonsense on your part. I can predict that the stock market will likely go up over the next 20 years but I can't predict what it will end at today. That doesn't make my predictions unlikely or invalid.

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@parados,

The laws of thermodynamics exist but the sub-branch of thermodynamics that apply to the simple case of a black body does not apply to the earth.

What the hell is your personal background in physics and mathematics?

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@BillRM,

The layman doesn't need physics or math to understand our environment, because those closely involved with most subjects share the information in language most of us understands.

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@cicerone imposter,

Sorry but without a basic independent understanding of mathematics and science you are completely at the mercy of whoever is declared to be an expert.

It nice for example to know the limitation of computer modelings and the limitations due to chaos theory from your own background when the self declare 'experts' are selling the computer models predictions as meaningful and a reason to take actions at once.

Yes I know now that technology is ever more important the fairly small percent of the population with at least a fair grounding in such subjects is way too small and a real problem.

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@cicerone imposter,

You know in the 60s and 70s it drove me crazy that people who are going by what they been told about the danger of nuclear power without any independent understandings of the subject kept us from moving the major of our electric grid to nuclear for going on fifty years now.

A move that would had have a large impacted on the earth CO2 percents in the atmosphere being blocked by the same people and or the same kind of people who go with the 'experts' as far as their concerns for climate changes.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

So you are arguing that the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to the Earth?

What the hell is your personal background in Climatology?

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@parados,

Lord the laws of thermodynamic does indeed apply to the earth but not in the manner that your completed lack of understanding of those laws had led you to believe.

For the hundreds and one time the earth is not a black body and therefore your ideas on how those laws apply to the earth is complete nonsense.

But we both know you have never been near a college level course in physic that would have cover the laws you do not understand.

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@BillRM,

What's your background in Climatology?

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@BillRM,

Since you agree that the laws of thermodynamics do apply to the Earth then explain how the energy gain and loss doesn't apply when calculating temperature of the earth as a whole.

You can also explain how everything on earth is not a black body (in your esteemed opinion).

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Would you care to explain the 20 years pause in temperatures increases.

By being very very careful in picking data points you can prove a relationship and cause and effect even if there is little coupling.

So Bill. Where is your data showing this 20 year pause in temperature increases?

Or is the assault you are making on science one where you feel you can just make wild claims and not have to show data points?

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@parados,

Quote:

Since you agree that the laws of thermodynamics do apply to the Earth then explain how the energy gain and loss doesn't apply when calculating temperature of the earth as a whole.

Do you know how must the earth mass as a whole?

Try 5.97 x 10^24 kg........

You do not change that mass temperate in any measurable manner in thousands of years without having the sun going nova and the sun is too small to do go nova.

Hell the earth center is at thousands of degrees with an melted iron core and decouple to a large degree, thank god, by the insulation properties of the earth crust and mantle from us.

When talking about the earth temperature you break the problem up to the temperatures of the parts of the earth biosphere not the whole earth!!!!!!

The earth is not a simple black body that you can do the calculation you are thinking of.

The temperature of the top of the atmosphere is not the temperature at ground level and the temperature of the ground is not the same as the lower atmosphere and the temperature of the oceans are not the same and......

You can not treat the earth as a whole in the manner you wish to treat it.period.

Only a small uniform object could be so treated.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

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When talking about the earth temperature you break the problem up to the temperatures of the parts of the earth biosphere not the whole earth!!!!!!

Wow???? You mean like atmosphere or ocean? Hmmm.... I wonder who argued otherwise?

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The temperature of the top of the atmosphere is not the temperature at ground level and the temperature of the ground is not the same as the lower atmosphere and the temperature of the oceans are not the same and......

It must be nice to simply make up what you want to argue against. Climatologists never said the temperature at the top of the atmosphere is the same as at ground level. They also never said the temperature of the oceans was the same as the temperature of the atmosphere. They have also never argued that the surface temperature in Nome Alaska is the same as the temperature in Caracas.

Do you have any other non existent arguments you want to argue against?

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@parados,

But I enjoy his creative mind. Wink

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@parados,

You repeat you ask why the earth can not be treated as a whole and I was explaining that to you.

I do not know now if you are completely scientifically illiterate or just playing some stupid game or other.

Sadly my bet is a combination of you being both scientifically illiterate while trying to play games.

This nation is going to have to do one hell of a better job of making the population far more scientifically literate then it now seems to be from the small sample of the posters on this thread.

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AN ASSAULT ON SCIENCE

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