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Are men and women different? The Pope says so.

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 12:39 am
Debra_Law wrote:
... Our religious views (see above) are based upon our interpretation of the
Bible.


Bingo. Not much else can or needs to be said, really. Its all point-of-view.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 12:39 am
the rest
Quote:
In this way, man's relationship with woman is transformed, and the three-fold concupiscence described in the First Letter of John (1 Jn 2:16) ceases to have the upper hand. The witness of women's lives must be received with respect and appreciation, as revealing those values without which humanity would be closed in self-sufficiency, dreams of power and the drama of violence. Women too, for their part, need to follow the path of conversion and recognize the unique values and great capacity for loving others which their femininity bears. In both cases, it is a question of humanity's conversion to God, so that both men and women may come to know God as their “helper”, as the Creator full of tenderness, as the Redeemer who “so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son” (Jn 3:16).


Original sin and selfishness can be overcome! Hallelujah, hallelujah! If women will just follow the path to salvation as outlined in this letter and recognize their biological imperative and unique role as man's helper as planned by the Creator, the whole world will be OKAY!

Quote:
Such a conversion cannot take place without humble prayer to God for that penetrating gaze which is able to recognize one's own sin and also the grace which heals it. In a particular way, we need to ask this of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the woman in accord with the heart of God, she who is “blessed among women” (cf. Lk 1:42), chosen to reveal to men and women the way of love. Only in this way, can the “image of God”, the sacred likeness inscribed in every man and woman, emerge according to the specific grace received by each (cf. Gn 1:27). Only thus can the path of peace and wonderment be recovered, witnessed in the verses of the Song of Songs, where bodies and hearts celebrate the same jubilee.


Women, if you recognize the sin of women's liberation, your sin will be healed! Follow the path of Mary and rejoice in your unique feminine role wherein motherhood is an essential key to your identities! Place your man first, your family harmony second, and yourself last! Only thus can the path of peace and wonderment be recovered! The Church is NEVER WRONG!

Quote:
The Church certainly knows the power of sin at work in individuals and in societies, which at times almost leads one to despair of the goodness of married couples. But through her faith in Jesus crucified and risen, the Church knows even more the power of forgiveness and self-giving in spite of any injury or injustice. The peace and wonderment which she trustfully proposes to men and women today are the peace and wonderment of the garden of the resurrection, which have enlightened our world and its history with the revelation that “God is love” (1 Jn 4:8,16).


For interpretation, read everything above.

Quote:
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, in the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved the present Letter, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered its publication.

Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, May 31, 2004, the Feast of the Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

+ Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect

+ Angelo Amato, SDB
Titular Archbishop of Sila
Secretary



I'm done! If you think this reads like a "feminist manifesto," you can kiss my behind!
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 08:35 am
Sozobe, Debrah_Law and Sophia, I admire the sacrifice you made in reading through this whole letter. Your comments are so much more worth reading than the text you were commenting on.

Your humble fan,

Thomas
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 08:56 am
I gotta pretty much agree with that, too, Thomas. I figure The Church is pretty much stuck in The Fourth Century. My eggin' folks on wasn't a "defennse" either of The Letter or of The Church; it was intended to get folks to look at the content and context of The Letter as opposed to merely selecting and endorsing other folks' opinions of the thing. Looks like some folks actually took the trouble to do that. :cool:
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 09:17 am
You know timber, when you wrote earlier that the Catholic Church is "naturally conservative", and that this letter is just a wee bit less conservative, my instinctive reaction was to respond with something sarcastic.

But then I remembered that I had the same reaction in 1991, when the Catholic Church finally admitted that mistakes had been made in the Inquisition's Catholic Church vs. Galilei case. I also remembered that my second thought back then was that it was unfair of everybody to get sarcastic on John Paul II, who at least admitted the mistakes, rather than his 380 years worth of predecessors, who could have admitted them too, but chose not to.

Was that the point you were trying to make? Something like "Yes, this is a 14th century letter, and that's pretty conservative. But hey, it's still 1000 years more modern than 4th century, so that's progress." Because on that basis, i might actually agree with you.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 10:03 am
I think religion is much like politics in that it polarizes all who adopt 'all or nothing' stances on various issues and are unwilling to compromise in order to reach consensus.

Here on this thread, one side condemns the letter as another example of outworn discrimination and subjugation of women by the Roman Catholic Church. Another side might praise it as an example of how a giant megolith like the RCC is slowly but surely joining a modern world and give the Church a B+ for progress. Still another, probably smaller group, might give it an A+ for being right and correct on all counts.

Unfortunately the resulting prejudices too often make it difficult or impossible to separate the message from the messenger and objectively discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of the various components.

Has it always been this way do you think? At least since they closed down the Inquisition and there is less likelihood of being burned at the stake as a heretic?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 11:32 am
Thats sorta at least encompassed within the point I've been laboring, Thomas ... and that was a characteristically perceptive observation on your part, I must say. If there is an upside, it just might be that The Church appears at least beginning to recognize things have changed some over the past millenium-and-a-half. I'm not at all convinced there's much reason to expect any sort of paradigm shift in attitude from that quarter, though; their core doctrine pretty much IS "Written in stone", ya know :wink:
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 11:43 am
But the thing about freedom of religion is that it provides the right to chisel out the stone as we choose. I quarrel with the RCC myself not for any of their beliefs, though I disagree with a great number of them, but because they discourage thought and new concepts via the threat of excommunication. If the catechisms are interpreted literally, the excommunicate is consigned to hell and this can effectively control dissent and innovation of thought.

Considering this, that the RCC has become as enlightened as it has is nothing short of miraculous.
0 Replies
 
galabem
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 03:31 am
How do i solve the Gender equality between a Man and a Woman
Goodday,
i really need a big help so that i can advice my girl friends that women are not as men. I gave reasons that a woman was created because Man needed her and that they are equal. Man named everything including woman but woman named nothing. A woman is like a domestic bird that a man always provide shelter for her.
What really hurts me most is this matter that has start in Canada ,female priest ordained. I really detest that , for a woman's place has never been to bless people or address men in an occassion. In my African tradition, a woman only speaks when the husband gives her the room to,i f not she has noright to talk even if it concerns her. But now, things are changing hand in my continent. Reason women think of equality between men. Even love that was so precious and devoted in my African custom has been talking to the Market. And more prof in my tradition to show that a woman is not equal to a man is that, if a woman is caught in aldetary, the woman is punish but nothing goes for the man.
I personally wish to figth agains this ideaology my women in Africa has.
[email protected] for more details.
thanks for reading through. God Bless You. Question Question
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 08:14 am
Welcome to A2K galadem. Where in Africa are you from? And are you there now?

In America religion is all over the map when it comes to the role of women in society. You will find fundamentalist Christians and others who think men should have absolute authority over women and women should be consigned to only specific roles (dictated by men or, as some believe, by God).

You will find other groups who afford women full and complete status in society with no restrictions imposed whatsoever.

And you will find others who hold personal convictions somewhere between the other two views.

The world is changing and, along with it, a lot of the old views that no longer make any sense are being dropped in many places and among many cultures.

For you and your lady, I think you cannot take a notion or idea out of her head. In my opinion, if her views are unacceptable to you, you would do better to find a woman who shares your views of what a woman's place should be. Otherwise you both will be miserable. (You better hurry though while there are still women like that available--the pool is shrinking fast.)
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 01:43 pm
Quote:
Debra_Law wrote:
... Our religious views (see above) are based upon our interpretation of the
Bible.


Bingo. Not much else can or needs to be said, really. Its all point-of-view.


An interpretation in Black Spring by Henry Miller (Grove Press.Inc.)

"The King James Version was created by a race of bone-crushers.It revives the primitive mysteries,revives rape,murder,incest,revives epilepsy,sadism,megalomania,revives demons,angels,dragons,leviathans,revives magic,exorcism,contagion,incantation,revives fratricide,regicide,suicide,revives hypnotism,anarchism,somnambulism,revives the song,the dance,the act,revives the mantic,the chthonian,the arcane,the mysterious,revives the power,the evil,and the glory that is God.All brought into the open on a colossal scale,and so salted and spiced that it will last until the next Ice Age."

What your interpretation of that?It's only a snatch from possibly America's most famous writer.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 02:50 pm
Henry Miller had a snatch?
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 03:17 pm
Boys have a penis. Girls have a vagina.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 05:38 pm
Gee-I must have led a sheltered life.
0 Replies
 
 

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