Extra-Terrestrial Megastructures detected around a star?

@oralloy,

I shouldn't have mentioned Classes of civilizations. That wasn't germane to my point.

The reality is that we don't have the slightest clue what a civilization that could build something like that might be doing with it. And I agree, they're probably not "beaming" the energy from one star to another, but I'm sure that you can't conclude therefor, that there's no reason for it. They might be quantum entangling that star to theirs for some reason. Maybe that star is a terminal point galactic subway system. Who knows. Have some fun with it Smile

Or maybe it's something incredibly exotic like a quantum observer projector which his designed to link anyone who observes it to the source. Meaning maybe we're not so safe as the distance between us might imply (to us).

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I want to take issue with this statement from your linked article:

Quote:

Such a structure could only be built by an alien race with technological capacities far in advance of our own.

It's not a matter of technology, we have the technology. What we don't have is the will and control. With NASA, Glavkosmos, ESA, JSA, CSA--with a half dozen agencies following programs of their own, the resources devoted to space are scattered over a lot of projects, none of which has a very ambitious goal. We could, for example, construct not a Dyson sphere, but a lattice which would harvest more energy than the human race needs, or could use.

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"Star KIC 8462852 is in the news. Its dimming might be due to alien constructions. Hang tight: The Allen Telescope Array is looking."
http://twitter.com/SETIInstitute/status/655387078826553344

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@oralloy,

could it be a cepheid star? has that been mentioned as a possibility? especially since its cyclic

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

could it be a cepheid star? has that been mentioned as a possibility? especially since its cyclic

I think cepheid has been considered, but the dimming cycle is variable. I'm not even sure it repeats (yet).

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

I want to take issue with this statement from your linked article:

Quote:
Such a structure could only be built by an alien race with technological capacities far in advance of our own.

I think they were a little bit sloppy with their choice of words on that quote.

As technologically intelligent beings I think we have the potential to do just about anything we decide to do within our knowledge of physics (given enough time). But at this moment in history, I'm pretty sure we lack the cultural drive to produce something like that, and I also think we would need to jump at least a few more levels in materials science (and robotics) to be able to produce any physical structure which would be at all effective for circling our Sun.

If we attempted to build a structure that was anything more than a few atoms thick, we might run out of raw material on Earth. On the other hand, if we were to construct carbon fiber sheets only a few atoms thick and somehow have them convert light to electricity, then we might have enough material on Earth to start building something like this. Otherwise it's an asteroid mining exercise.

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@farmerman,

One of the articles said that this star varies in brightness by up to 20% and that these events can last as long at 80 days and that they are variable in time and brightness. It did not say whether the cycle repeats itself, and I'm not sure they have monitored the star long enough to know.

They have also said this this is not a young star which they might expect to have lots of orbital debris around it, which would normally be how you would account for something like this.

Their original assumption was that there was something wrong with the measurements themselves, but they have apparently ruled that out. And they've also ruled out (somehow) the possibility of something between here and the star interfering with the data.

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@rosborne979,

well, if its a cepheid after all, we can use a good distance reference point in that sector of the galaxy.(Im so full of **** my eyes are brown, I have no idea whether it would be important or not as a sky map point)

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@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

It did not say whether the cycle repeats itself, and I'm not sure they have monitored the star long enough to know.

"To figure out if any of these changes are periodic, or at least have a periodic component, the researchers used a mathematical tool called a Fourier transform, which breaks signals down into the frequencies that make them up. It turns out there is indeed a regular period embedded in there, a rather short 0.88 days (or 1.14 cycles per day).

This number is pretty much what researchers would expect for a star like KIC 8462852, as it could represent the rotation of the star itself. They were able to calculate the star’s size as a result--they found that it was consistent with a normal F type star. Could the rotation of disturbances on the surface of the star itself explain the strange reduction?

Not entirely. The Fourier transform graph reveals that something more complex is going on, as there are a few other periodic signals that also contribute to the signal. In other words, it still looks a lot like a type F star, but its rotation leaves a number of signals unaccounted for."
http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/something-were-not-sure-what-is-radically-dimming-a-stars-light/

rosborne979 wrote:

They have also said this this is not a young star which they might expect to have lots of orbital debris around it, which would normally be how you would account for something like this.

Their original assumption was that there was something wrong with the measurements themselves, but they have apparently ruled that out. And they've also ruled out (somehow) the possibility of something between here and the star interfering with the data.

I think they've ruled out everything but a nearby passing star disturbing the Oort Cloud and showering the inner solar system with a LOT of comets.

They say the comet scenario is unlikely because the comets would be cleared out of the solar system relatively quickly in geological terms, making it unlikely that we'd be chancing to see the star right when there were a ton of comets swarming it.

But they also say that there is a small red dwarf star really close by, exactly where it would need to be to send a storm of comets spiraling into the inner solar system.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

But they also say that there is a small red dwarf star really close by, exactly where it would need to be to send a storm of comets spiraling into the inner solar system.

Thanks for the info.

I think this is actually a binary star system, so the red dwarf has been there for a long time (although I might be mistaken). And if that were the case I think the comets would have been pulled out a long time ago. But I'm sure they have anticipated this already.

It seems like a good mystery to me. I certainly can't think of anything obvious which they haven't already considered (not surprising).

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This is a great thread, and the topic is very exciting.

I can't help but think that eventually we will learn this is due to a physical phenomenon, but I can hope.

So many people right now believe that we are not alone in the universe that I wonder what the impact would be if it was confirmed.

Undoubtedly, there would be some segments (I hope small) that would be unable to fathom the distances involved here and become all alarmed or excited about an impending encounter with aliens.

Aside from the possible benefits we might accrue, how would solid evidence that we are not alone affect mankind? I think I've seen at least a hundred scientists tell me it will have a profound effect, but I'm not so sure.

Economically it will have an effect even if only at the margins with t-shirt sales going wild, but would it alter the way you viewed your own life and humanity in general?

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@Finn dAbuzz,

what if we discovered there were chipmunks on Mars? I dont think wed do anything but study them (and hopefully) let em be to live on their own. They dont rpresent a threat or an opportunity. We may be the ones discovering the alien chipmunks, or WE MAY BE THE ALIEN CHIPMUNKS.

The plot line of that Sci Fi of a few years ago "Inependence Day", had the assumption that technologically advanced civilizations would wish to exterminate us and exploit our resources and then , like an advanced "slash and burn" occupation , the planet would be lfdt barren.

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@rosborne979,

Yeah, i do along with the asteroid mining idea. The reason i mentioned a lattice is because we wouldn't need so much material. A "ring-world" around our star might work, too. Once again, we should think in terms of getting the raw materials from the asteroids.

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@farmerman,

But how would the discovery of chipmunks on Mars impact us?

Personally, I don't think it would have a profound effect on the way we think about ourselves, but there are plenty of good minds that assert such a discovery would.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

It might change our human centric/Earth centric view of the world. Life somewhere else means we're not a special or unique as we thought.

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@engineer,

With all due respect (seriously), this is what everyone who says it will have a profound effect asserts, but what does that mean in terms of every day lives or geopolitical strategies?

So know we know that there are more than humans in the universe...so what?

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@Finn dAbuzz,

wouldnt the knowledge that we are not alone open entire new areas of industry or stoke up our flagging space programs? Maybe itd even kindle some new partnerships among nations.

Other nations, moving ahead in partnerships under long term goals, are , as of now, leaving the US behind. SOmetimes these major programs of humanity will spur greater economic growth because, If it turns out we are dealing with a class II or greater civilization, wed better have a series of plan A, B, or C, one of which is that they are hostile.

Mining planets, the moon, asteroids etc will probably start with beefing up helium 3 reserves and large enough platforms like the moon or Mars will serve as ideal bases for industrial operations for even more distant excursions.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

I think it's more cultural. What does it mean for religion if God created the world in seven days he created another world several thousand years ago? Hard to feel superior to everyone else when even if you're the best human you are still on the B team of evolution.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

The plot line of that Sci Fi of a few years ago "Inependence Day", had the assumption that technologically advanced civilizations would wish to exterminate us and exploit our resources and then , like an advanced "slash and burn" occupation , the planet would be lfdt barren.

If this turns out to be a case of intelligent life around this star, they are not building around a dim long-lived star, but around a hotter more medium star that will eventually die and force them to move to a new home.

I presume that the speed of light cannot be broken, but time dilation should make a one-way commute between the stars bearable for the commuters.

Since we also live around a medium sort of star, I'd hate to have such a civilization show up on our doorstep one day planing to make our sun the centerpiece of their new Dyson sphere.

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@farmerman,

Yes, it could have that effect, and I would be very happy if it did, but if it did I think it would have to be spurred on by a public reaction that approached a new fad.

I'm quite certain that the world's leaders would be advised in accordance with many of the comments made here that the likelihood of our interacting in the near term with whatever civilization might be responsible for this structure is quite slim. None of them are going to worry about what might happen 1,000 or more years from now.

I suppose it's possible that whatever civilization was responsible has since then been making a beeline towards earth and could be at our doorstep, but I think that's unlikely, and I doubt that's the advice scientists will be giving word leaders.

It might give a nudge to space programs but I don't see anything akin to the Apollo program ensuing.

We've become a very inward looking people.

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Extra-Terrestrial Megastructures detected around a star?

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