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How Did You Learn The Bible?

 
 
Squeakybro
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 11:08 am
@neologist,
Isa 45:6-7
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(KJV)

I am getting concerned about you. You don't know who the Holy Spirit is. Now you don't know who God is. Do you know who Jesus is? I really don't think you have the knowledge to judge anyone else. Or even criticize them.
InfraBlue
 
  0  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 12:23 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

. . . . What's the purpose of permitting Satan to torment humankind?
Why not ask why God did not immediately destroy the rebels, Satan, Adam, and Eve? He could then have started over with a clean slate.

Why not answer the question at hand which is about Jehovah permitting Satan to torment mankind?

You like the word "permitting", as if mankind's troubles are part of God's purpose.

You used the word "permission" here. So, what role do mankind's troubles, those inflicted by Satan by the permission of Jehovah (as per your interpretation of the Job story), serve if they are not a part of Jehovah's purpose?

neologist wrote:
Well, I don't have the mind of God. But I can see that the issues raised by Satan in Eden could not be resolved by his immediate execution.


You continue to conflate the Eden story with the story of Job.

Why don't you deal with the story of Job in and of itself?

neologist wrote:

If you wish to consider God's decision to allow these issues time for resolution as an act of hostility to mankind, I wish you a long and happy life.

My considerations are irrelevant to the issue being discussed.

So, God allowing the torment of humankind by Satan isn't an act of hostility, for reasons concerning the resolution of the issues of rebellion.

Acknowledged.

According to you, nothing that Jehovah does to humankind is hostile, either permitting Satan's torment short of murder or forcing humanity to eat their offspring for disobedience, etc.

Getting back to my original question, supposing eternal torment was a part of Jehovah's purpose it wouldn't be an act of hostility to mankind given that eternal torment would also be a part of Jehovah's purpose. How would it be "despicable?"
Squeakybro
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 05:46 pm
Do you know why all that stuff happened to Job?
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  3  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 06:28 pm
@Squeakybro,
Surprised to see you dabbling so deep into the "Old Testament" my friend Smile

The king James bible's translation here uses the word evil, but is taken from the Greek word RX, which is also rendered in other parts of the bible as calamity, disaster or distress. Keep in mind that these have fundamentally different connotations, "God creates Evil" would implicate that Evil is central to Gods purpose. Whereas "God creates calamity" implies that God punishes wrongdoers with calamity. The context of the discussion (using contrasting language by way of emphasis) also supports the latter, but I know context holds little weight with you.

What I would say, is consider what you know of Jesus, a reflection of his father, and think about which is more likely. We will differ on our definitions of Evil you and I, but I am confident we both hold a similar view of Jesus and his persona.

In your reluctance to compare the meanings of words via a concordance (or two), you are actually falling into the trap you seek to avoid, adopting the opinion of one translator without question. Am I seeing something that is not there? do you not see it also?

While I have respect for the KJV, I am highly reluctant to accept it as an infallible translation, one example is that it had the Israelites celebrating Easter (a Pagan celebration to the Goddess Ishtar) rather than the passover, not just mistranslating but completely ignoring the Original Greek word used "Pascha" which means passover. The most dangerous example would be the late inclusion of the Comma Johanneum i.e. 1 John 5:7, which I am sure you can respect is not only denominationally biased toward the trinitarian teachings but also highly spurious in it's origin
Discrepancies arise in all translations, which is why using a concordance is the most effective way of eliminating translation bias (the opinion of the translator or influence of the denomination responsible for the translation)
Squeakybro
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 07:34 pm
@Smileyrius,
Well I know the old testament but I never rely on it. And if it has anything contrary to the new testament I always go with the new testament.
Now it says over and over that God kept secrets from those in the old testament and revealed it to His people in the new testament. So we could argue all day about the differences or changes. Are the changes what is revealed today the hidden mystery? Or are the changes to day a delusion or deception.
I know this from experience the Holy Spirit only quotes what Jesus and the new testament says. Now for 25 years I have received the revelations of Jesus Christ. I put them to practice and they have proven to be perfect. When I started studying I went to websters, and funk and wagnal dictionaries. But after a short walk in deception I went to strongs and nelsons. But when I received the revelations of Jesus Christ they put all them others falling short.
All I can do is share them. I believe them, I know they work.
Try reading the revelation on "Jesus' Word". And you will know why I will not move away from it.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 07:54 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Getting back to my original question, supposing eternal torment was a part of Jehovah's purpose it wouldn't be an act of hostility to mankind given that eternal torment would also be a part of Jehovah's purpose. How would it be "despicable?"
If someone accused you of torturing people, would you not judge it a despicable lie? Assuming, it's not true, that is.
Squeakybro
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 07:57 pm
@neologist,
Someone that fears God, knows and believes that God created us and He can do anything He wants and its ok with us. Because God is righteous in all His ways.
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 07:59 pm
@Squeakybro,
What?
"Old Testament"?
Do you use it only when it suits you?
Have you parsed the citation using a good concordance?
If you did you would find the word "calamity" fits much more accurately.

But, as long as you have dusted off your "OT", why not read Proverbs chapter 8 and tell us if it teaches you anything about Jesus.
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 08:36 pm
@Squeakybro,
Your belief should be in agreement with Jeremiah's words about God and his mercy:
Quote:
31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. (Jeremiah 7:31)
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 08:59 pm
@neologist,
My judgement is irrelevant to Jehovah's purposes.

Jehovah, for his own purposes, allows Satan to torment humankind, forces them to eat their offspring, and will visit horrifying violence upon them at the end time and this isn't despicable it's good.

But, eternal punishment in the name of Jehovah's own purposes would be despicable? How do you figure?
Squeakybro
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 09:05 pm
@neologist,
Maybe calamity is another one of them deceptions that you fall for. I mean you have fallen from every other delusion that God put out there.
0 Replies
 
Squeakybro
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 09:07 pm
@neologist,
Your statement doesn't make any sense with the verse you posted. Have you got a point?
Squeakybro
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 09:10 pm
@Squeakybro,
The LORD God made it very clear in the old testament. Obey His voice and receive a blessing, do not obey His voice and receive a curse. We have always had the choice.
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 11:27 pm
@Squeakybro,
Squeakybro wrote:
Your statement doesn't make any sense with the verse you posted. Have you got a point?
Apparently the point you missed. If God has not even allowed himself to think of allowing people to "burn their sons and their daughters in the fire" how could he allow humans to suffer for an eternity?

Or does your spirit 'friend' have a different personality?
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 11:47 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
My judgement is irrelevant to Jehovah's purposes.
Thankfully!
InfraBlue wrote:
Jehovah, for his own purposes, allows Satan to torment humankind . . .
Humans, in general, have cooperated with this 'torment' for thousands of years. Perhaps there is more to God's purpose than you are wont to understand.
InfraBlue wrote:
. . . forces them to eat their offspring,
When the Hebrews failed to live up to their covenant, God withdrew his protection. Satan provided the harsh consequences, as he has since 70 C.E.
InfraBlue wrote:
. . . and will visit horrifying violence upon them at the end time . . .
He spared Nineveh. He can spare anyone who is willing to accept his laws.
InfraBlue wrote:
. . . and this isn't despicable it's good. . .
Your words, not mine.
InfraBlue wrote:
. . . But, eternal punishment in the name of Jehovah's own purposes would be despicable? How do you figure?
You hate the idea of having any obligation to a creator, don't you?
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Oct, 2015 11:51 pm
@Squeakybro,
Squeakybro wrote:
The LORD God made it very clear in the old testament. Obey His voice and receive a blessing, do not obey His voice and receive a curse. We have always had the choice.
True.
You simply do not understand either the blessing or the curse.
Squeakybro
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2015 06:25 am
@neologist,
That verse was an answer to the people who were sacrificing their children to Him. When He said sacrifice your first born. God was talking about sacrificing the first born to the ministry, not killing them.
Squeakybro
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2015 06:27 am
@neologist,
Oh but I do. God gave everyone a choice. Eternal life in heaven or in the lake of fire.

John 5:29
29 "and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
(NKJ)

0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2015 09:45 am
@Squeakybro,
Squeakybro wrote:
That verse was an answer to the people who were sacrificing their children to Him. When He said sacrifice your first born. God was talking about sacrificing the first born to the ministry, not killing them.
You didn't read it, did you?
Squeakybro
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2015 10:58 am
@neologist,
I received a revelation on that years ago.
 

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