How Did You Learn The Bible?

Then why do you ask?



This does not negate the fact that Jehovah allows Satan to torment humankind, according to your interpretation of Job.



This does not negate the fact that Jehovah forces humanity to eat their offspring.



This does not negate the fact that Jehovah will visit horrifying violence upon humanity at the end time.



So, it's "bad?"



You're dodging the question.

Would it be too much too request that revelation, you have me intrigued my friend

Judg 11:30-39
30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD, and said, "If You will indeed deliver the people of Ammon into my hands,
31 "then it will be that whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the people of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up as a burnt offering."
32 So Jephthah advanced toward the people of Ammon to fight against them, and the LORD delivered them into his hands.
33 And he defeated them from Aroer as far as Minnith-- twenty cities-- and to Abel Keramim, with a very great slaughter. Thus the people of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.
34 When Jephthah came to his house at Mizpah, there was his daughter, coming out to meet him with timbrels and dancing; and she was his only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter.
35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he tore his clothes, and said, "Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low! You are among those who trouble me! For I have given my word to the LORD, and I cannot go back on it."
36 So she said to him, "My father, if you have given your word to the LORD, do to me according to what has gone out of your mouth, because the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the people of Ammon."
37 Then she said to her father, "Let this thing be done for me: let me alone for two months, that I may go and wander on the mountains and bewail my virginity, my friends and I."
38 So he said, "Go." And he sent her away for two months; and she went with her friends, and bewailed her virginity on the mountains.
39 And it was so at the end of two months that she returned to her father, and he carried out his vow with her which he had vowed. She knew no man. And it became a custom in Israel
(NKJ)



Deut 12:29-31
29 "When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land,
30 "take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.'
31 "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
(NKJ)

Jer 7:31
31 "And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into My heart.
(NKJ)

Thankyou Squeaky, three very good scriptures.

Interesting point on the Valley of Hinnom, which is also known as Gehenna, and is rendered Hell according to the KJV bible, specifically in the new testament. Do you see any relevance or application of these scriptures to the teaching of hellfire?

I don't understand the question.

My apologies squeaky, it was probably the way i asked it, i should try to be more coherent.

looking at the scriptures you quoted, do you see anything within them that might be cross referenced with the theological idea of hell and hellfire?

HELL
Matt 5:22
22 "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mark 9:43-48
43 "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched--
44 "where 'Their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'
45 "And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched--
46 "where 'Their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'
47 "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire--
48 "where 'Their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'
Luke 12:4-5
4 "And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!
2 Pet 2:4
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
Heb 10:29
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Matt 12:40
40 "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Acts 2:31-32
31 "he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 "This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
James 3:6
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.
Rev 6:8
8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
Rev 20:13-15
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8
8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Rev 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(NKJ)
Eph 4:8-10
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended"-- what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
John 5:25
25 "Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
1 Pet 4:6
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(NKJ)
XXX Hell is a jail for spirits. To be held until the final judgment day. Then those who do not receive mercy will be tosed into the eternal lake of fire. Forever, and ever. Some people were condemned in the old testament by the old testament law. That later Jesus would forgive. Some were condemned that will stay condemned. Some just lay asleep in their grace. Some in the new testament will go to hell and then down the eternal lake of fire. Some will just go to sleep and wait for judgment day.

Rev 14:9-11
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
(NKJ)

Matt 13:39-40
39 "The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 "Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
(NKJ)


Matt 25:41
41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
(NKJ)

It always strikes me that we take three terms which had three completely different meanings, and bundle them into one under a single denominations theological understanding and the original meanings are overwritten.

did you not see anything in your previous scriptures linking Gods feelings toward the idea of burning children in "hell"

The way you say things can be confusing. "Did you not see" What does that mean?

Which denomination is that?

The same thing occurs across denominations with the conflation of helel(translated variously as "morning star," "Day Star," "Lucifer"), Satan, the Devil, the serpent/snake in Genesis, the Dragon in Revelation, etc.

Wait a minute. I have always had the morning star as Jesus.

Rev 22:16
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."
(NKJ)

2 Pet 1:19
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
(NKJ)

Wikipedia has an interesting discussion on the meaning of helel as found in the Hebrew text of Isaiah 14:12.

Translated as 'Lucifer' in the Latin text, it seems to be ambidextrously applied to both Satan and Jesus by various denominations. It seems more likely to be meant as a title or description. And, while 'Satan' is also a descriptive word meaning 'rebel' or 'resistor', 'Satan' seems a more appropriate term for the original serpent.

Just my opinion.

But, this discussion should highlight to you the importance of stringent research when it comes to the meaning of words.

I have this for Isa

Isa 14:12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
(KJV)

Isa 14:12
12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!
(NKJ)

exempli gratia

Just an opinion.

You know I see so many intellectuals using mans wisdom trying to strain out gnats on spelling and original Hebrew picking at words. I was just wondering if you ever considered the modern day changes as some of the hidden secrets that God has kept secret sense the foundation of the world.
The Hidden Mystery
Eph 3:2-6
2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,
3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,
4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),
5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:
6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,
(NKJ)

Rom 16:25-26
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--
(NKJ)

Col 2:1-3
1 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh,
2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
(NKJ)

Col 1:24-28
24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,
25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God,
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
(NKJ)

Mark 4:11-12
11 And He said to them, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables,
12 "so that 'Seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand; lest they should turn, and their sins be forgiven them.' "
(NKJ)

1 Cor 2:7-15
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him."
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
(NKJ)

Eph 1:7-10
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth-- in Him.
(NKJ)

Rom 11:25
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
(NKJ)

You are correct when you say the Bible was not written for the intellectuals. But that not mean one cannot profit from research and knowledge. What of those educated men who wrote the King James Version? They would have spent years developing the knowledge of Greek and Hebrew necessary to produce their work. The same applies to the many other fine translations in use today.

But, when you see a disparity between translations, or if we discover a single English word used in the place of 2 or more words in the Greek or Hebrew texts, don't you think you have some obligation to investigate? That would not be the same as straining out gnats.

You speak of modern day changes. Whose do you accept? Or, where do you go for explanations?

Whilst I know that a number of denominations have adopted the theory, I'd personally hand the responsibility over to the catholic church between the 2nd and 4th centuries for their role in taking a Greek concept, developing it into Christian Theology and teaching it in the churches.

I go straight to the Holy Spirit. After all He is the only guarantee in the whole bible. To bad you don't know Him. If you did we could get on the same page.

I was under the impression that adding or taking away from scripture would result in ones name being removed from the book of life (Revelation 22:18,19) You appear to be suggesting that it could also be Gods will.

I don't imagine that God's "hidden things" would contradict the things he has placed in the light of day, for surely that would make him a liar one way or the other.

Using a concordance or dictionary to discern where theology has influenced translation is about undoing mans wisdom, not embracing it It isn't perfect but it is a step in the right direction. When Diving for pearls How do you identify a counterfeit if you have not examined the original?
An example perhaps, what do you make of 1 John 5:7?