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Volkswagen Cheated Emissions Testing

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2015 04:42 pm
My goodness, dishonest capitalists in the social democracy of Germany.

Never trust the Hun Wink
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2015 04:55 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Yeah. They're either at your feet, or at your throat. I think somebody important once said that.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 12:31 am
Nobody can believe anymore that it was an "oversight": according to newspaper reports ('Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung" and "Bild am Sonntag"), Volkswagen has been informed years ago about exhaust manipulations - by its own engineers (2011, FAZ) and the suppliers Bosch (2007, BamS).

(Bosch is said to have used this software for test purposes. It has been given to VW with the note that any other use was illegal. - The VW-technicans noticed the use in 2011 and reported it - it's not know, what was done resp. why nothing was done.)
eurocelticyankee
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 03:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It's going to get worse, much worse when the health implications are examined.
I heard it compared to the thalidomide scandal this morning.

Ach mein Gott!.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 06:08 am
>DW sums up< the most recent reactions/reports in Germany.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2015 05:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That state prosecution office at the regional court Brunswick announced this noon that they opened a preliminary probe against VW-group's ex-CEO Winterkorn ("Fraud [by selling cars with manipulated exhaust values]").

Several persons made charges against him, Volkswagen Group charge against persons unknown.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2015 05:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That state prosecution office at the regional court Brunswick announced this noon that they opened a preliminary probe against VW-group's ex-CEO Winterkorn ("Fraud by selling cars with manipulated exhaust values").
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2015 02:14 pm
The major question on the table is this: will Volkswagen be forced to buy back and most likely scrap 11 million cars? That it seems to be would be the end of the company.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2015 04:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
States with the strong lemon laws can make this happen right now. In California I'm pretty sure all of these vehicles would violate the lemon law
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2015 04:15 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

States with the strong lemon laws can make this happen right now. In California I'm pretty sure all of these vehicles would violate the lemon law

The way I understand it the US has tougher requirements, which I think means that the "fix" is going to have to degrade performance more in America than in Europe. Not that we have heard of a proven fix yet. Remember that the entire reason for the cheat to begin with was that without it the car performance was terrible.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2015 05:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Volkswagen's promise to deliver a fix for its rigged diesel engine "in the next few days" refers to vehicles sold in Europe and other foreign markets, not the U.S., according to a company source.

The "retrofit" that VW expects will bring the vehicles into compliance with government pollution standards was announced Tuesday in Berlin by the company's new CEO, Matthias Mueller, who said customers would be contacted "in the next few days" with details.

But a company source, who spoke on condition of anonymity with TheDetroitBureau.com later in the day, said the promise only refers to VW diesels sold in Europe and some other foreign markets, not the U.S., where the fix will be more complicated.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/vws-promised-fix-diesels-doesnt-apply-u-s-vehicles-source-n435746

Maybe VW could buy back all of the USA cars and sell them as used in Europe.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2015 09:22 am
Wide range of cars emit more pollution in realistc driving conditions, tests show


rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2015 09:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,

I guess the testing methodology wasn't very effective. I wonder if this will help VW at all.

Who devised the testing methodology?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2015 10:08 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Adac put the diesel cars through the EU’s existing lab-based regulatory test (NEDC) and then compared the results with a second, UN-developed test (WLTC) which, while still lab-based, is longer and is believed to better represent real driving conditions. The WLTC is currently due to be introduced by the EU in 2017.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2015 10:09 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
I wonder if this will help VW at all.
Definitely: no. (Volkswagen, AUDI and Skoda used a "cheating software".)
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2015 10:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
I wonder if this will help VW at all.
Definitely: no. (Volkswagen, AUDI and Skoda used a "cheating software".)
So does this mean that all the other car companies (on that list in your link) are in the same hot water as VW? Or did their cars show a discrepancy in testing versus actual emissions for entirely accidental reasons (not due to "cheating" software)?
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2015 11:33 am
@rosborne979,
I would say not. If the test is somewhat biased due to the operational conditions (in other words, emissions are 10% higher at speed but it is the same for everyone) then I think everyone else is fine. "I tested it fair and square the way you told me and I passed." VW actively cheated the test. No real excuses for that.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2015 12:09 pm
@engineer,
I agree.

All test (here in Europe) never have been done under driving conditions, but the software of some Diesel-engines of the Volkswagen-group additionally made the results even better.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2015 12:44 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
As a side-note: the cities of Brunswick (Braunschweig) and Wolfsburg, both with Volkswagen factories, and Ingolstadt (AUDI factory) have declared budget freeze - because they fear an enormous reduction in the "Gewerbesteuer" (that's a municipal business tax [trade tax] collected by municipalities on all commercial establishments - their main "income").
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 03:22 am
Quote:
But just how poorly does the engine perform when the cheating algorithms are switched off?

The crew over at The Fast Lane Car recently conducted their own testing to find out how much power the TDI could lose when the emissions cheating software isn't active.

To conduct their test, TFL put a stock 2011 VW Jetta TDI on a four-wheel dynamometer, which measures a car's horsepower and torque output.

The four-wheel dyno allowed the TFL team to test the car while simulating real-world-driving and emissions-testing conditions.

To gauge power output in real-world-driving conditions, TFL ran the dyno with all four of the car's wheels turning — tricking the car into believing it was on the road.

In this case, the Jetta's cheat software would turn off most of the car's emissions-control features.

As a result, the Jetta produced a peak output of 138.5 horsepower and 260 pounds per foot of torque. That's on par with the manufacturer's announced performance figures of 140 horsepower and 240 pounds per foot of torque

TFL then ran the test again. This time, the dyno only the turned the Jetta's front wheels. This tricks the car into believing that it is being emissions tested, activating all of the car's pollution controls. In this setting, the Jetta produced a peak output 136.5 horsepower and 228.4 pounds per foot of torque.

With the full emissions controls on, the Jetta lost 2 horsepower and 32 pound per foot of torque at full throttle. But TFL observed that the biggest difference in power is at the lower end of the power curve, where the engine operates during acceleration. There, the TDI engine with the full pollution controls was down as much as 15 horsepower.

This means that the TDI engines with the emissions control programs turned on will likely offer less peppy acceleration.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-much-power-vws-cheating-194429238.html

Are there any gearheads out there who know if this sounds like a car that would be safe to drive? Unknown is what the gas mileage would be.

extra credit: how likely would it be that the transmissions and the engines would no longer match up well? I gotta figure that the nightmare scenario would be needing to swap out transmissions. They might as well buy and junk most of these cars in that case.
 

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