Why do so many so-called Christians turn backwards to the Old Testament?

@izzythepush,

Yep, most of it came down in oral stories anyway.

I’m not too interested in the historical/chronological accuracy of the book but the story it tells. The 'historical' aspect that interests me is the past as prologue.

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@Leadfoot,

The historical accuracy says a lot about the veracity of the rest of the book which seems made up of archaic prejudices and pseudo science.

One thing about Islam is that the early scholars recognised the importance of time, how things constantly need to be re-evaluated.

When “shariah law,” was first set up the Islamic scholars who created it said that this was only their interpretation of Islamic law, and that every generation should revisit it as times change.

The tragedy is that in so many cases this did not happen, but that does not change the original intentions.

I may be wrong but I get the impression you use old outdated scripture to justify a lack of compassion.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

I may be wrong but I get the impression you use old outdated scripture to justify a lack of compassion.

Without context it is not possible for me to argue. Same is true of 'God'. Without context, he is a monster who annihilated entire populations and let his Son be killed for no reason.

It’s hard to find anyone interested in talking about the context though.

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@Leadfoot,

If you believe what a load of primitive people from a pre industrial society had to say.

The context is for those suffering today from Covid or any number of things. When Cobbler brought this up on his evangelical thread you seemed utterly lacking in compassion, quite callous actually, and you used scripture to justify it.

When you do the right thing you don’t need scripture or anything else to justify it, because it’s the right thing. So often religious types use scripture to justify doing the wrong thing.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

If you believe what a load of primitive people from a pre industrial society had to say.

I read both pre and post industrial literature. I have seen no change in the ability to reason or be truthful.

I said nothing about the subject of Covid or compassion for the victims of it. Cobbler (and you) use it to derail any discussion of theology. That is callous, unkind and malicious.

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@Leadfoot,

I’m not trying to derail anything. If your theology does not result in greater compassion for your fellow man, then what is the point?

That’s what Cobbler was asking you.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with religious people, most religions are based around the idea of being nice to one another. If people are being nice to one another I don’t have a problem. I’m aware of great acts of sacrifice and of charity by religious people. I don’t have a problem with any of that, all well and good.

My problem is with the religious people who don’t do that, who do the exact opposite in fact, and there’s a **** ton of those on A2K at the moment.

I’m not saying you’re one of those people, but you do tend to turn a blind eye and make excuses from some pretty atrocious behaviour.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

I’m not trying to derail anything. If your theology does not result in greater compassion for your fellow man, then what is the point?

That’s what Cobbler was asking you.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with religious people, most religions are based around the idea of being nice to one another. If people are being nice to one another I don’t have a problem. I’m aware of great acts of sacrifice and of charity by religious people. I don’t have a problem with any of that, all well and good.

My problem is with the religious people who don’t do that, who do the exact opposite in fact, and there’s a **** ton of those on A2K at the moment.

I’m not saying you’re one of those people, but you do tend to turn a blind eye and make excuses from some pretty atrocious behaviour.

You hit a lot of nails squarely on their heads here, Izzy.

Keep fighting the good fight.

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@izzythepush,

Cobbler did not actually ask me anything. He gave me several sermons about how vile I was for supporting Trump and having no compassion (without evidence).

Typical of Cobbler in the relevant thread was :

Quote:

Cobbler wrote:
You should be sorry for supporting Trump.

Trump is backed by evangelicals who menace the word just as you do.

Since when did the Bible exempt the "rulers of this world"?

You justify neglecting your duty to family with an egregiously interpreted scripture...

Pulling the believer card does not exempt you from your duties as a human being.

I have only so much pity I can bestow in my life and children in cages and people dead from Covid take up most of it.

If you think you deserve some of this pity you need to get in line...

Maybe you can get in line behind the black people trying to vote.

Neither of us was the subject of the thread, but he insisted on making it all about me and my moral failings and my nonexistent support of Trump and hate of people who are sick with covid. The only questions he asked were the equivalent of 'When are you going to stop beating your wife.'

You are usually more brief, you just blow off anything 'religious' And it sure sounds like you have a problem with religious people.

Quote:

Izzy wrote:
Evangelism is about persuading the feeble minded to part with their money in order to enrich yourself. It’s a scam, and a legal one at that.

It’s got **** all to do with Jesus.

It’s like trying to talk with the Queen in Wonderland.

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@Leadfoot,

Evangelicals aren’t religious, they’re money grubbing bastards.

An Anglican priest has been in the news over here, organising food deliveries for people in desperate need. His story is really inspirational, ex drug using criminal hard man who turned his life around, became a priest, forgive the man who abused him a child, actually take him off the streets and reconcile him with his family, and dedicate himself to helping the poor and vulnerable.

That man’s decency is humbling, if there is a story about the redemptive power of Jesus Christ then his surely is it. He is a religious person I admire immensely, the hate merchants who voted for Trump aren’t worth consideration.

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Simple test. Does the Christian behave/talk like Christ or Herod?

If Christ, yes they are a Christian, deserving of respect.

If Herod, they are using the name of Christ as a smokescreen for hatred and bigotry, and they voted for Trump.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

Simple test. Does the Christian behave/talk like Christ or Herod?

You are on shaky ground there Izzy. Unless you carefully cherry pick your examples, you’ll get burned. In the thread we’re discussing, I was virtually crucified for directly quoting JC.

Simple test: Either Jesus Christ in totality represented Love, or he didn’t.

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@Leadfoot,

Directly quoting, really?

In a court of law what you were saying would count as hearsay.

I wasn’t talking about you I was pointing out the difference between genuine Christians who help people, often at a cost to themselves, and those who use Christianity to spread hate and/or enrich themselves.

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@izzythepush,

I was quoting Bible verses attributed to Jesus.

You must be playing to the stupid because I don’t think you are.

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@Leadfoot,

I’m not playing at anything. You’re the one who appears to be having trouble understanding what I’m saying.

Most of what is attributed to Jesus is third fourth fifth hand information if not more than that. The gospellers are fairly disingenuous as well, with lots of obvious bullshit about censuses and the like to twist the narrative to fit in with previous prophecies.

And it’s limited, there are plenty of other accounts of Jesus that the politicians at council of Nicaea did not include not to mention the oral stories of Jesus that abound.

In short the Bible is to be treated with a pinch of salt. What is in it and what is out of it was decided by politicians who wanted another go at a state religion after Sol Invictus did not make the cut. Although we still celebrate his birthday on 25th December.

The Bible is all about maintaining the status quo and ensuring the rich and powerful remain that way. It’s where the concept of the Divine Right Of kings comes from.

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@izzythepush,

Now both you and Cobbler have become honest. Thank you.

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@Leadfoot,

I’ve not said anything different from what I’ve been saying all along.

Either you’ve not been paying attention or it’s taken forever for the penny to finally drop.

I do not speak for Cobbler.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

I’ve not said anything different from what I’ve been saying all along.

True, always maliciously derailing any discussion of theology.

Quote:

Either you’ve not been paying attention or it’s taken forever for the penny to finally drop.

Oh I’ve been paying close attention. But true, I am slow to give up. Perhaps it is finally time to let go of that.

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@Leadfoot,

There’s nothing malicious about it.

You got upset because you can’t control the debate. Your theology is based on writings that are flawed. When those flaws and contradictions are pointed out you call that malicious.

We’ve already learned that facts are socialist from Fox News, and now you’re telling us they’re also malicious.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

I read both pre and post industrial literature. I have seen no change in the ability to reason or be truthful.

Interesting how you keep harking back to truth when you accuse Cobbler and me of being dishonest.

Now I don’t want to get into a debate on the nature of truth because we’d be here all day, but just because someone believes they’re being truthful doesn’t mean they’re correct.

Look at Medieval and Classical doctors brought up on the belief that the body was composed of four humours and that any illness was as a result of an imbalance in those humours.

This was the central creed of the Medical profession for a very long time and those who practiced it were truthful and sincere in their belief. They’d made a solemn oath to do no harm.

Their truthfulness doesn’t alter the fact that it’s a complete load of bollocks.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
I may be wrong but I get the impression you use old outdated scripture to justify a lack of compassion.
Without context it is not possible for me to argue. Same is true of 'God'. Without context, he is a monster who annihilated entire populations and let his Son be killed for no reason.

It’s hard to find anyone interested in talking about the context though.

Leadfoot,
I believe that the context is that Adam and Eve brought sin into mankind's world by not obeying God. This caused a spiritual separation between people and God. The Lord said that the problem would be solved by One who would crush the serpent's head.
Good promised that Abraham would be the father of a Nation, which Jews and Christians believe was through Isaac. Moses lead the people out of Egypt and 613 laws was given to Israel. The sacrificial system was developed for the sins of the people.
The temple was built and then rebuilt, including the Holy of Holies.
Jesus was the ultimate "sin bearer" and the curtain separating people from the Holy of Holies was split in two. Now, people have access to Holy God through Jesus.
This was a very brief review, but I hope it provides context.

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Why do so many so-called Christians turn backwards to the Old Testament?

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