Craven de Kere wrote:Moishe3rd wrote:
I will try to be more prescient in the future.
Thank you.
I will offer a helpful parable:
Polly is screaming rape while beset by Igor.
Jim says, "gee well Polly had sex with Ed and John before and I don't see why the sex now is such a scandal, this is a double standard."
Craven points out that the decision is really up to her, not Jim.
Moishe3rd interjects, "it's clearly not up to her. Look! Igor's firmly in control."
Get it yet?
I was telling Jim that ultimately self-determination is about the Palestinian's deciding and not Jim.
And you interject that Israel has the wheel. Yes, no kidding but that wasn't the point or the topic.
Craven, craven....
Igor is raping Polly and you want to talk about Israel and the wheel?
I suggest you go stop Igor.
Then maybe can explain what it is you are trying to say.
Moishe3rd,
I neglected to explain to you that parables are not necessarily true, so while fictional Polly appreciates you concern, you can calm down now.
What do who wants anything from Israel?
UN Assembly Tells Israel to Tear Down Barrier
1 hour, 21 minutes ago Add Top Stories
By Irwin Arieff
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Israel must obey a World Court ruling and tear down its West Bank barrier, the U.N. General Assembly demanded in a resolution adopted by an overwhelming vote on Tuesday.
The vote in the 191-nation assembly was 150-6, with 10 abstentions, to adopt the measure aimed at dismantling the 370-mile barrier that Israel says is needed to keep out suicide bombers but Palestinians see as a land-grab aimed at dashing their hopes for eventual statehood.
All 25 European Union (news - web sites) countries voted in support of the Palestinian-drafted measure after its Arab sponsors accepted a series of EU amendments over days of intense negotiations.
However, the United States, Israel's closest ally, voted "no" after U.S. Deputy Ambassador James Cunningham warned the resolution was unbalanced and could further undermine the goal of a Middle East in which Israeli and Palestinian states lived side by side in peace.
"All sides are now focused on Gaza and partial West Bank withdrawal as a way to restart the progress toward this vision," Cunningham told the assembly.
Israel also voted 'no,' along with Australia, the Marshall Islands, Micronesia and Palau.
Abstaining were Canada, Cameroon, El Salvador (news - web sites), Nauru, Papua New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, Tonga, Uganda, Uruguay and Vanuatu.
"Thank God that the fate of Israel and of the Jewish people is not decided in this hall," Israeli Ambassador Dan Gillerman said after the vote. "When all is said and done, it is simply outrageous to respond with such vigor to a measure that saves lives and respond with such casual indifference and apathy to a Palestinian campaign that takes lives."
Palestinian U.N. observer Nasser al-Kidwa praised the vote as "a historic development."
"This indeed could be the most important resolution of the General Assembly since the adoption of Resolution 181 of 1947," he said. That measure called for the partition of British-ruled Palestine into independent Jewish and Arab states.
The General Assembly acted after the World Court ruled in a July 9 "advisory opinion" that the barrier, which is still under construction, was illegal because it cut deep into West Bank land to shield settlements built by Israel on territory it seized in the 1967 Middle East War.
The court, formally known as the International Court of Justice and based in The Hague (news - web sites), is the top U.N. legal body.
The assembly resolution, like the court ruling, is not legally binding but carries great symbolic weight in the international community.
The resolution demanded that Israel comply with the court finding that it was legally obliged to dismantle the barrier and pay reparations for damages caused during construction.
In response to EU proposals, it also condemned all acts of terrorism and urged both Israel and the Palestinians to meet their obligations under the road map to peace set out by the quartet of Middle East mediators -- the United States, European Union, United Nations (news - web sites) and Russia.
Sponsors also accepted an EU demand that the measure specify that states have the right to defend themselves against attacks on their people. A section of the court ruling had suggested that under the U.N. Charter, a state had the right to defend itself against an attack from another state but not, for example, from a suicide bomber.
The measure also softened a demand that Switzerland, as keeper of the Fourth Geneva Convention, convene a meeting of parties to the treaty to ensure it was being observed.
The final version said only that Switzerland could consider convening such a meeting. The 1949 pact deals with the protection of civilians in time of war. A key provision bars a government building settlements on land acquired by force.
However it is not binding.
Only the security council can decide this in fact. But there has the USA with four other countries a right of veto....
cicerone imposter wrote:UN Assembly Tells Israel to Tear Down Barrier
1 hour, 21 minutes ago Add Top Stories
By Irwin Arieff
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Israel must obey a World Court ruling and tear down its West Bank barrier, the U.N. General Assembly demanded in a resolution adopted by an overwhelming vote on Tuesday.......
As the above is relevant, maybe this is also:
From
LGF:
Maintaining an unbroken record of craven cowardice, unapologetic corruption, and bald-faced hypocrisy, the United Nations will move about a third of its employees out of the suddenly-unfriendly Palestinian Authority, into an area controlled by the nation whose destruction they voted for tonight:
UN to move 20 workers from Gaza to Jerusalem
Quote:The United Nations has decided to move 20 people working in UN facilities in Gaza - about a third of its foreign crews - to the UN headquarters in Armon Hanatziv in Jerusalem. The other 40 non-Palestinians working for the UN in Gaza will remain at their jobs.
The transfer was ordered by Peter Hansen, UNRWA commissioner general in Gaza, who is also responsible for the security of all the UN organizations operating in the strip. According to a Hansen spokesman, the transfer of the 20 was the result of "the security situation in the area of the Erez Junction and Beit Hanoun, where IDF forces are operating and which endanger the movement of UN people entering and leaving Gaza."
But other international groups operating in Gaza said that the real reason for the redeployment of the civilian foreigners is the deteriorating security in recent months, and particularly the events in Gaza last weekend when French aid workers were briefly kidnapped by armed Palestinians.
And were you, by any chance, wondering why UN envoy Terje Roed-Larsen recently came out with such harsh criticisms of his former best buddy Yasser Arafat, after being such a willing tool for the terrorists for so many years?
Well, here's the answer: because Roed-Larsen's own lying ass was in danger.
Quote:Sources in Gaza said that two months ago, Secretary General Kofi Annan was warned by a third party that an armed faction in Gaza was plotting to kidnap Annan's envoy to the region, Terje Roed Larsen, in an attempt to pressure the Israeli government.
The sources said that a demonstration of thousands that took place during the IDF operation in Rafah was actually meant to reach a Gaza City compound where Roed Larsen was often located. During the march, 17 armed men managed to get inside the compound, and when they didn't find the Norwegian diplomat they demanded he make an appearance, and at the same time they began summoning the media. Roed Larsen refused to comply with their demand and eventually the armed men left. The UN subsequently learned the armed men planned to hold Roed Larsen hostage while they made demands.
Europeans no longer neutral, Israel says
Quote:
'Disappointment' voiced over UN call to dismantle barrier
UNITED NATIONS, New York Israel expressed doubts Wednesday about the reliability of the European Union in the Middle East peace process after EU nations backed an Arab-sponsored General Assembly resolution demanding that Israel abandon and dismantle its separation barrier on the West Bank.
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The vote followed a fierce dispute between Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel and President Jacques Chirac of France over Sharon's call for Jews to emigrate from France because of "the wildest anti-Semitism." And the Israeli foreign minister said earlier this week that the EU position on the resolution would signal whether it should have a prominent role in peace negotiations.
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"Israel is particularly disappointed by the European stand," an Israeli Foreign Ministry statement said.
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"The willingness of the EU to fall in with the Palestinian position, together with its desire to reach a European consensus at the price of descending to the lowest common denominator, raises doubts as to the ability of the EU to contribute anything constructive to the diplomatic process."
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Israeli officials said Wednesday that construction of the barrier would continue. "Building of the fence will go on," Raanan Gissin, a senior adviser to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, told Reuters.
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The European Union, along with the United Nations, the United States and Russia, make up the so-called quartet whose road-map plan calls for separate sovereign states for the Palestinians and Israelis.
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The vote Tuesday went overwhelmingly against Israel, with 150 in favor, 6 against and 10 abstaining.
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Last-minute amendments agreed to by the measure's sponsors during a hastily called two-hour recess succeeded in gaining the support of all 25 members of the EU and more than 30 other nations that had abstained the last time the matter came before the Assembly.
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In that vote - a resolution on Dec. 8, 2003 that asked the international court to rule on the barrier's legality - there were 74 abstentions, many of them influenced by the European view, with 90 votes in favor and 8 against.
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"Thank God that the fate of Israel and of the Jewish people is not decided in this hall," Israel's ambassador, Dan Gillerman, told the delegates after the result was posted on the electronic board next to the dais.
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Nasser al-Kidwa, the Palestinian observer at the UN, described the outcome as "magnificent."
IHT
How now? That´s boldfaced.....
this was bad ruling from the UN...if they want to achieve anything near peace they should know that this fence is going to be a key factor. If the international community doesn't allow israel to build it, then i think that israel should never leave the "west bank and regain control of the gaza strip." the "palestinians" have not demonstrated the ablility to rule a peaceful country so why should we allow terrorists to rule freely?....this sounds like a perfect UN solution.
The argument against the wall is that it is being built encroaching on Palestinian land as defined by the "green line" after the '67 war.
InfraBlue wrote:The argument against the wall is that it is being built encroaching on Palestinian land as defined by the "green line" after the '67 war.
And, this is very good argument, if a person is bent upon the destruction of Israel.
Now that Israel has left Gaza, there is no other "border" that Israel needs to be concerned with...
Why?
Gaza was never "part" of Egypt. It was adminstered by Egypt. When Israel took it away, it was administered by Israel under Egyptian laws.
Now, it is being administered by the Arabs called Palestinians. This is as it should be.
The Golan Heights were taken by Israel and annexed by Israel and Israel will keep that land unless, in some future fantasy world, Syria decides to become friends with Israel. In which case, some other agreement will be worked out.
Judea and Samaria, the West Bank, were taken by Israel from Jordan. Jordan repudiated its claim to this land. Israel is stuck with it. Therefore, Israel will do whatever it wants - and walling off the rather contentious Arabs called Palestinians who have made a religion out of murdering people, has proven to be a good idea.
Moishe wrote:Judea and Samaria, the West Bank, were taken by Israel from Jordan. Jordan repudiated its claim to this land. Israel is stuck with it. Therefore, Israel will do whatever it wants - and walling off the rather contentious Arabs called Palestinians who have made a religion out of murdering people, has proven to be a good idea.
That's a pretty self-serving view, and illustrates part of the crux of the problem between Israel and the Palestinians.
Moishe wrote:And, this is very good argument, if a person is bent upon the destruction of Israel.
And this view illustrates the paranoid psychopathy that underlies much of Zionist politics.
InfraBlue wrote:Moishe wrote:Judea and Samaria, the West Bank, were taken by Israel from Jordan. Jordan repudiated its claim to this land. Israel is stuck with it. Therefore, Israel will do whatever it wants - and walling off the rather contentious Arabs called Palestinians who have made a religion out of murdering people, has proven to be a good idea.
That's a pretty self-serving view, and illustrates part of the crux of the problem between Israel and the Palestinians.
As far as Israel is concerned, it is a 100% self-serving view. And, it is working to serve the interests of Israel.
Oddly enough, it is also working to serve the interests of those Arabs called Palestinians. Less of them are dying. Less of them are murderers. More of them wish to be on the Israeli side of the fence. In the opinion of the majority of the Arabs called Palestinians, the only thing more vile than having Israel rule over them is having the PA rule over them...
InfraBlue wrote:Moishe wrote:And, this is very good argument, if a person is bent upon the destruction of Israel.
And this view illustrates the paranoid psychopathy that underlies much of Zionist politics.
A mental disorder of unjustified fear that the Arabs called Palestinians and much of the Islamic world is bent upon the destruction of Israel?
Really?
Oh.
Don't get stuck on stupid.
Moishe wrote:As far as Israel is concerned, it is a 100% self-serving view. And, it is working to serve the interests of Israel.
To be redundant about it in different words.
Quote:More of them wish to be on the Israeli side of the fence.
Only because Israel has expropriated, and separated them from their lands.
Quote:In the opinion of the majority of the Arabs called Palestinians, the only thing more vile than having Israel rule over them is having the PA rule over them...
All the vileness emanating from both sides leaves a lot to be desired in the opinion of the majority of the Arabs called Palestinians.
Moishe wrote:A mental disorder of unjustified fear that the Arabs called Palestinians and much of the Islamic world is bent upon the destruction of Israel?
This view illustrates a mental disorder of unjustified fear that the Arabs called Palestinians and much of the Islamic world is bent upon the destruction of Israel because by and large the Arabs called Palestinians merely want a just outcome of this festering quagmire. The rest of the Islamic world in general doesn't much give a damn about Israel either way.
Don't get stuck on your psychosis.
what do we want from Israel???
How about handing over Sharon to a War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague??? That would be great!
If you have got the time that is and your not busy.
Gee! Thanks for the offer.
