19
   

Those Dark Spots on Pluto

 
 
georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 04:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I wouldn't say either "never" or"always" with regard to these matters and Setanta. I have seen him reasonable and attentive and sometines very informative and insightful. This one however was not one of those.

What you wrote was accurate, to the point and perhaps the most unusual feature of this "mini planet" and its moon.Tidal fixation had nothing to do with that, and I can't see what set him off on that riff.

We could all use a little more tolerance and courtesy on these threads. Me too.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 05:28 pm
Congratualations to Frank, Neo, Max and O'Brian for trashing this thread. Good work, assholes.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 05:34 pm
@Setanta,
It's what they are good at.
Setanta
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 05:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
It's the only thing they're good at.

Sorry about your thread, Boss . . . i should have known better than to address a remark to that ignoramus Frank.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 06:21 pm
@Setanta,
Go back and read. You are the only one trashing thus thread Setanta.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 07:01 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
It's what they are good at.
edgar, I am deeply sorry for the disrespect I have shown your thread.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 07:04 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Go back and read. You are the only one trashing thus thread Setanta.


That is the way I see it also, Max.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 07:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I was going to leave it at that...but no, because Edgar keeps digging.

Setanta can't help it...he is deranged; one of the most damaged personalities I've ever encountered.

But Edgar is choosing to be the kind of person he is being when he just agreed with Setanta's remark.

This thread was going fine...and reasonable contributions were being made by all the people involved.

I made a reasonable, valid contribution...which Setanta used as an excuse to do one of his things...the "you are a moron" thing.

He was the instigator of any disruption of this thread, Edgar. And for you to agree with him in trying to divert responsibility should disgust anyone participating.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself, Edgar...but I suspect you no longer have that in you.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 07:18 pm
I've been researching emoji. This one seems appropriate at this stage of the discussion:
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/neologist/full-moon-symbol.png
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 07:26 pm
Based on what I've seen so far, I'm inclined to think that they may have "demoted" Pluto from "planet" status too soon.

Given that it has accumulated sufficient mass to form itself into a sphere and that it seems to have active geology and an atmosphere and weather, it seems less like a large asteroid and more like a planet.

I would like to know what the core of Pluto is made of and what temperature it's at.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 07:31 pm
@rosborne979,
since when is "Active geology" a criterion?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 07:35 pm
@rosborne979,
I'd love to see it promoted back to "planet" status, Rosborne, but I don't think the fact that it is a sphere and has an atmosphere will play a part in that move.

There are other bodies in the solar system with mass enough to form a sphere and have atmospheres that will almost certainly never be considered for planet status.

Pluto was considered a planet...and that might be the motivator to reinstate it. I will not be holding my breath...and I suggest you don't either.

This inspection is just fascinating...whether we are investigating a planet or minor planet.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 07:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
forming a sphere by accretion through attraction IS one of the criteria for planet status according to Tyson
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 11:28 pm
According to Wikipedia, these are the IAU criteria for naming a body of the solar system a planet:

"The definition of planet set in Prague in 2006 by the International Astronomical Union (IAU) states that, in the Solar System, a planet is a celestial body which:

is in orbit around the Sun,
has sufficient mass to assume hydrostatic equilibrium (a nearly round shape), and
has "cleared the neighbourhood" around its orbit.
A non-satellite body fulfilling only the first two of these criteria is classified as a "dwarf planet". According to the IAU, "planets and dwarf planets are two distinct classes of objects". A non-satellite body fulfilling only the first criterion is termed a "small Solar System body" (SSSB). Initial drafts planned to include dwarf planets as a subcategory of planets, but because this could potentially have led to the addition of several dozens of planets into the Solar System, this draft was eventually dropped. The definition was a controversial one and has drawn both support and criticism from different astronomers, but has remained in use.

According to this definition, there are eight planets in the Solar System. The definition distinguishes planets from smaller bodies and is not useful outside the Solar System, where smaller bodies cannot be found yet. Extrasolar planets, or exoplanets, are covered separately under a complementary 2003 draft guideline for the definition of planets, which distinguishes them from dwarf stars, which are larger."

The Wikipedia article on the evils of Pluto is interesting.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2015 03:12 am
Quote:
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/Multimedia/Science-Photos/pics/pluto_heart_of_the_heart_03.jpg
In the latest data from NASA's New Horizons spacecraft, a new close-up image of Pluto reveals a vast, craterless plain that appears to be no more than 100 million years old, and is possibly still being shaped by geologic processes. This frozen region is north of Pluto's icy mountains, in the center-left of the heart feature, informally named "Tombaugh Regio" (Tombaugh Region) after Clyde Tombaugh, who discovered Pluto in 1930.

"This terrain is not easy to explain," said Jeff Moore, leader of the New Horizons Geology, Geophysics and Imaging Team (GGI) at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, California. "The discovery of vast, craterless, very young plains on Pluto exceeds all pre-flyby expectations."

This fascinating icy plains region - resembling frozen mud cracks on Earth - has been informally named "Sputnik Planum" (Sputnik Plain) after the Earth's first artificial satellite. It has a broken surface of irregularly-shaped segments, roughly 12 miles (20 kilometers) across, bordered by what appear to be shallow troughs. Some of these troughs have darker material within them, while others are traced by clumps of hills that appear to rise above the surrounding terrain. Elsewhere, the surface appears to be etched by fields of small pits that may have formed by a process called sublimation, in which ice turns directly from solid to gas, just as dry ice does on Earth.

Scientists have two working theories as to how these segments were formed. The irregular shapes may be the result of the contraction of surface materials, similar to what happens when mud dries. Alternatively, they may be a product of convection, similar to wax rising in a lava lamp. On Pluto, convection would occur within a surface layer of frozen carbon monoxide, methane and nitrogen, driven by the scant warmth of Pluto's interior.

Pluto's icy plains also display dark streaks that are a few miles long. These streaks appear to be aligned in the same direction and may have been produced by winds blowing across the frozen surface.

The Tuesday "heart of the heart" image was taken when New Horizons was 48,000 miles (77,000 kilometers) from Pluto, and shows features as small as one-half mile (1 kilometer) across. Mission scientists will learn more about these mysterious terrains from higher-resolution and stereo images that New Horizons will pull from its digital recorders and send back to Earth during the next year.

http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/News-Center/News-Article.php?page=20150717

Quote:
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/Multimedia/Science-Photos/pics/nh-pluto-mountain-range.png
Pluto's icy mountains have company. NASA's New Horizons mission has discovered a new, apparently less lofty mountain range on the lower-left edge of Pluto's best known feature, the bright, heart-shaped region named Tombaugh Regio (Tombaugh Region).

These newly-discovered frozen peaks are estimated to be one-half mile to one mile (1-1.5 kilometers) high, about the same height as the United States' Appalachian Mountains. The Norgay Montes (Norgay Mountains) discovered by New Horizons on July 15 more closely approximate the height of the taller Rocky Mountains.

The new range is just west of the region within Pluto's heart called Sputnik Planum (Sputnik Plain). The peaks lie some 68 miles (110 kilometers) northwest of Norgay Montes. This newest image further illustrates the remarkably well-defined topography along the western edge of Tombaugh Regio.

"There is a pronounced difference in texture between the younger, frozen plains to the east and the dark, heavily-cratered terrain to the west," said Jeff Moore, leader of the New Horizons Geology, Geophysics and Imaging Team (GGI) at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, California. "There's a complex interaction going on between the bright and the dark materials that we're still trying to understand."

While Sputnik Planum is believed to be relatively young in geological terms - perhaps less than 100 million years old - the darker region probably dates back billions of years. Moore notes that the bright, sediment-like material appears to be filling in old craters (for example, the bright circular feature to the lower left of center).

http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/News-Center/News-Article.php?page=20150721-2

Quote:
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/Multimedia/Science-Photos/pics/nh-nix-hydra-7-21.jpg
While Pluto's largest moon, Charon, has grabbed most of the lunar spotlight, two of Pluto's smaller and lesser-known satellites are starting to come into focus via new images from NASA's New Horizons spacecraft.

Nix and Hydra - the second and third moons to be discovered - are approximately the same size, but their similarity ends there.

New Horizons' first color image of Nix, in which colors have been enhanced, reveals an intriguing region on the jelly bean-shaped satellite, which is estimated to be 26 miles (42 kilometers) long and 22 miles (36 kilometers) wide.

Although the overall surface color of Nix is neutral grey in the image, the newfound region has a distinct red tint. Hints of a bull's-eye pattern lead scientists to speculate that the reddish region is a crater.

"Additional compositional data has already been taken of Nix, but is not yet downlinked. It will tell us why this region is redder than its surroundings," said mission scientist Carly Howett, of the Southwest Research Institute, Boulder, Colorado. She added, "This observation is so tantalizing, I'm finding it hard to be patient for more Nix data to be downlinked."

Meanwhile, the sharpest image yet received from New Horizons of Pluto's satellite Hydra shows that its irregular shape resembles the state of Michigan. The new image was made by the Long Range Reconnaissance Imager (LORRI) on July 14, 2015 from a distance of 143,000 miles (231,000 kilometers), and shows features as small as 0.7 miles (1.2 kilometers) across. There appear to be at least two large craters, one of which is mostly in shadow. The upper portion looks darker than the rest of Hydra, suggesting a possible difference in surface composition. From this image, mission scientists have estimated that Hydra is 34 miles (55 kilometers) long and 25 miles (40 kilometers) wide.

"Before last week, Hydra was just a faint point of light, so it's a surreal experience to see it become an actual place, as we see its shape and spot recognizable features on its surface for the first time," said mission science collaborator Ted Stryk, of Roane State Community College in Tennessee.

Images of Pluto's most recently discovered moons, Styx and Kerberos, are expected to be transmitted to Earth no later than mid-October.

http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/News-Center/News-Article.php?page=20150721
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2015 03:28 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

forming a sphere by accretion through attraction IS one of the criteria for planet status according to Tyson


Yup, it certainly is.

My point, however, is that not every body that forms a sphere will be considered a planet. So that will not be one of the criteria used to reinstate it as a planet.

Ceres has formed a sphere. It almost certainly will never be a planet. Many other bodies also have mass enough to form a sphere...but they will never be designated planets.

Pluto was named a planet before we realized that many other objects in the solar system have the properties it has. I just think it ought to have special recognition for that reason.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2015 03:33 am
@oralloy,
Great pictures, Oralloy.

Just marvelous that we have been able to do this kind of thing.

Glad I've live to see the changes that have happened in my life. The scientific progress has been amazing.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2015 01:55 am
I thought i'd compile a list of items showing just how stupid it is to suggest that the Pluto planetary system and the Earth planetary system are more or less the same. The source is NASA's New Horizons web site.

Pluto rotates parallel to the plane of the ecliptic, just like Uranus--the earth (more or less) rotates perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic. Therefore, of course, Charon's orbit around Pluto takes it up and out of the plane of the ecliptic, before going down and out of the plane of the ecliptic. Charon is twenty times closer to Pluto than the Moon is to the earth. The Moon has about 1.2% of the mass of the Earth. Charon has 11.6% of the mass of Pluto, or almost 10 times the mass that the Moon has in relation to the Earth. Charon has half the diameter of Pluto, making it the largest satellite of any planet in this star system--one of the main reasons it is thought to be part of a dual planetary system. To quote NASA: "Pluto-Charon is the solar system's only known binary planet." Then, of course, there are the other four moons of Pluto-Charon, which were discovered in the course of this mission.

*************************************************

Over the last twenty years in astronomy, new discoveries in our star system and other star systems have made it clear that only rule is that there are no rules. No two planetary systems in this star system are the same--not even close in a comparison of Earth-Moon to Pluto-Charon (which, once again, is now considered a binary planet). Furthermore, the same is true of the star systems we've been able to study, especially in the last ten years--no two are the same, not even close.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2015 02:38 am
Hummm...I hadn't realized anyone had suggested that anyone had suggested that the Pluto planetary system and the Earth planetary system are more or less the same.

I know I wrote:


Quote:
Actually...the Earth and its moon dance around a common center of gravity. The center in our case lies inside the Earth.

And the Earth and Sun dance around a common center of gravity...as does every celestial body.

That one seems extreme...due to the huge size of Charon compared with Pluto.



Back when I wrote that...Setanta ERRONEOUSLY suggested I was ignorant for doing so. Now he may have invented something...and is suggesting it is "stupid."

Poor Setanta...putting so much work into heaping scorn on others...and avoiding acknowledging he is wrong.

Ya gotta feel sorry for the guy.
[/b]
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2015 09:02 am
A 2nd totally different mountain range discovered on Pluto, scientists baffled (PHOTOS)
https://www.rt.com/news/310563-pluto-mountain-range-found/
http://cdn.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55b0cadbc46188bd1c8b4603.jpg
 

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