Bill Cosby...stirring it up!

I'm done here too, but to answer your question; the action that was racially biased, and economically sound, still isn't right.
Example: Killing all Islamic people would get rid of the Islamic extremists. Very effective, but not very appropriate. Get it?

Interesting you ignored the kicker. Kinda blows the whole race thing out of the water, eh?

Not really, but I don't wish to argue this.

The debate about Cosby's being a racist against his own people is rather ridiculous to me. What debate? It's the same thing as the dynamics in a family. When I was growing up, my brothers took great pleasure in teasing and tormenting me, their little sister. But if someone else dared to give me any trouble they'd better get out of town because my big brothers were coming after them. It's the same thing with a black man admonishing other black people. When he does it, it's one thing. When someone outside of the 'family' does it, now that's something else.

Bill Cosby only stated in a public forum what many blacks have bemoaned for years, watching so many of our people move backwards instead of forward. (I thought Brown's commencement address was the wrong place but Tavis Smiley's show and Operation PUSH are certainly better avenues.) There was a time when education was paramount, nothing was more important, and there was a strong sense of pride in being an educated black man or woman. Nowadays, it's not hip to be into the school thing. Period. The number of young black men in college are steadily declining.

Cosby is screaming because, as he said, he's tired of seeing this backward slide. I'm glad he's screaming. It's time someone stood up and started screaming. I'd like to see him take on his own industry, tho. The entertainment industry. Music in particular. He took a couple of swipes last week at black comics, which he's done before. Eddie Murphy had something very ugly to say about Dr. Cosby some years ago, along the lines of Cosby "having a Coke and a smile and shutting the f*** up" but note how Eddie Murphy's latest movie roles are more Cosby-like than ever? Maturity maybe?

I'd like to see Dr. Cosby take on these rap artists. Snoop-Dogg and the like. IMO, that's where alot of the damage begins. In the form of entertainment. But it's got to start somewhere and I hope this isn't the end. I hope Dr. Cosby continues to scream, loudly, and I hope he gets some company. It's time for other people to stand up and scream right alongside him. I'm ready.

eoe
eoe, APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE!

You made my earlier point so much better than I did. Thank you for telling it like it is. And thank you for getting this thread back on the important topic.

BBB

Bill - that was just a bad comment and really...I was going to edit it out, but uhm..I decided not to. Admittedly, I have not followed yours and Craven's exchanges re:prejudiced or not within other threads, maybe I will soon go and read them...however...that comment was bred out of pure spur of the moment hotheadedness.

eoe - sure something needs to be said. But it doesn't need to be said to the masses of people that are already most likely thinking that the majority of black people don't have our **** together. As I said earlier, I have not an issue with the points he was making, I will admit those things need saying. More importantly though, they need listening too. They need to be heard by those that are living that kind of life.

UNCF - sure, I contribute...but those people that aren't benefitting from that and are the pinpoint of his statements are probably not even aware of them. They are the ones that need to hear it. As a man who came from nothing, I would think he would take his helpful comments and speeches to the center of the ghetto, to the middle of the most downtrodden neighborhoods, to the hangouts of the druggies, the wifebeaters, to the corners of the 'thugs' and dropouts and preach what nees to be said to those that need to hear it.

I wish that a really charismatic Aboriginal "star" had the intestinal fortitude to make a similar statement here (with the proper local criticisms, of course) - especially a male one - to speak out about the obscene levels of male to female violence, female to female violence, and abuse of kids, in the Aboriginal community - as well as alcohol abuse.

The levels of violence, sexual abuse and alcohol (and, in some remote communities, petrol sniffing) abuse is ripping the community apart.

The women speak out - and act, in some communities - (eg women elders have managed to get alcohol banned in some communities - and to get a "dry day" - ie no alcohol to be sold in bottle shops on pay day - in some large regional centres - so that money is not all spent on booze by the men, leaving women and kids to starve. Managed to get the white community to agree to this and all! That was tough action.) - be great to see some real male stars - to whom the boys and men look up - speak out as Bill has done.

I think we all need to be responsible for our own - I feel quite able to criticise my own (with me first in line) for racism and other evils - I feel in no position bore it up the black community - and anybody with any head or heart understands the sequelae of conquest and appalling treatment. Nonetheless, the problems are there - now - blighting the lives of the next generation.

Yeah - racists may take such criticism to their mean, sad little hearts - as they take everything anyway - and use such speech to fuel their stupid prejudices - to crooked eyes, everything looks crooked. But I think truth does no harm, in the long run.

No problem by me darlin. I can't really tell if "the moment" has passed or not based on that statement. I will tell you I would neither carry a position that caused me shame when aired publicly nor prevent this shame by keeping it private… If I didn't think I could defend my position in good faith; I'd change the position. :wink:

whirrrrrrrrrr

that was the moment passing :-)

What we fail to realize is that Cosby wasn't only speaking to the less fortunate, less priviledged. There are many, many middle class and upper middle class kids emulating the thug life, living it and breathing it, because that's what they see on MTV and BET and, for whatever reason, it has it's appeal. When he said that your 'dirty laundry' gets out of school at 2:30, he wasn't just talking lower class, inner city kids. There's a whole lot of dirty laundry flapping in the breezes of the suburbs as well.

I've seen many priviledged kids/young adults who can't speak proper English, don't read, can't think their way out of a wet paper bag, have no social skills whatsoever and have no opinions about anything outside of where and how to cop their next blunt. Both parents are on the career fast track, working 10-plus hour days and don't have the time or don't take the time to focus on their kids at all until they're in some kind of serious trouble and then, these parents don't understand what went wrong and they want to put the blame on everything and everybody else but themselves and their kid. After all, they gave them everything they ever wanted. How did they come to this end??? It's somebody elses fault. Not theirs.

That's Operation PUSH's audience. Tavis Smiley's audience. Educated parents, supposedly aware of the struggle but who forget or didn't take the time to teach their kid about the blood that was shed for the priviledge of their middle class and upper class lives.

Interesting discussion.

I see what Onyxelle is saying, I think... while it's cool that Cosby said something, at all, it seems a little safe and a little removed to do it in the venue(s) he chose. Takes some of the power of it away.

Curious, if he has this message and he wants the people who need to hear it to hear it, how would you (general "you") suggest that he do it?

I think I might have him approach the people who kids look up to now, the musicians, comedians, whomever, and see if he can organize something where THEY are getting the message out. Get them to see the importance of it, and then have a more direct avenue to the people he'd want to reach.

I dunno.

Soz - that woud be a good way.

Maybe have a forum at the inner city HS/middle schools - dare I say it (free of charge?) where they could hear the message during their normal days?

Someone else brought up Chris Rock, and IMO he delivers a similar message while managing to avoid the impression of doing so from above or afar.

indeed he does, sometimes. good night y'all


I swear!

Chris Rock speaks many truths. I'm mortified by some of the things he says. But there's no denying it. Again, the fact that these two men are wealthy, IMO, has no bearing. Is Chris more 'down' than Cosby? Why? Because he's younger? Because he has a potty-mouth?
The money thing, IMO, sounds like an easy excuse spread around by his detractors to dismiss what Cosby is saying.

I'm a pudgy white aunt to my hiphop performing black niece.
We are close, although we only see each other now once a year.

She talks street fast. She also speaks english with an exceptionally firm grasp of grammatic usage and a large vocabulary.

She goes to school at Venice high, which sits mid territory of the V13 and Sholine Crips (or whatever they call themselves now... these are decades old established gangs) while being a few blocks (as in three) from my old neighborhood (a then redlined area where my ex and I fought to get a bank loan and Frank Gehry has recently bought the last vacant lot to build his own new house), and past that another set of blocks, let's say five to ten, from Marina del Rey and multimillion dollar beachfront homes. She lives during the week with her white dad, my ex's brother, a few blocks inland of the school, and on weekends with her mother in Burbank, mother having met father while he was in Liberia in the Peace Corps working in her village.

When I was still living in Venice, in one of my last years there, her best new friend was a white girl she met when taking ice scating lessons at the culver city rink. But now in high school.. things are more segregated. I observe second hand that there is a lot of social pressure within her associations to not be a nerd, though she does aim for college.

Why do I go on about this? Well, at a given moment, one could think she is a tough cookie with few possibilities, based overheard language.

Still, if she were interviewing with Bill, I bet he'd hire her, if she wanted the job, since she is savvy, analytic, aggressive if engaged, and, yeh, good looking... and in the interview her language would be appropriate.

One interesting thing that he said that really ties into this is how he turned the tables on the use of the word "nigga".

In his tirades (that I sometimes object to vehemently) he defined it as "ignorant" and as the very elements that are the problem with the black community.

This was interesting and I think his way of using it is more appropriate than much of its common use today (though I admit to having less of a problem with it's modern use by black than others).

Rock defined it (among other characterizations) as people who claim credit for things they are "supposed to".

From memory:

"I ain't never been to jail."

"You ain't supposed to!"

---

"I always pay my child support"

"You supposed to!"

---

He also touched on what Cosby said here:



Chris Rock was more colloquial and did a piece on "the Media".

Again paraphrased from memory:

"When I pull money out of an ATM at night I am not looking over my shoulder for the MEDIA."

IMO yes. He's easier to relate to for the audeince Cosby was addressing.

I much prefer Cosby's delivery, that man exhudes integrity all the time ("He was my hero" was when the way he holds himself first floored me), but Rock may well have a more effective delivery to the intended audience.

This is a serious situation that calls for serious discussion, not rapidfire jokes. You don't hear half of what Chris says because of the laughter.

True that and sometimes I think the laughter is indicative of not understanding because I suspect understanding would bring solemnity more so than mirth, but I am not sure that Rock's delivery is not more memorable.

I do know that it has a greater lifespan and wider audience.

Perhaps there is utility for both.