Bill Cosby...stirring it up!

Bill Cosby is not the only Black person with those feelings, a lot of Black people, myself included, feel that way about some in our race.

The problem is that the ones who will hear his remarks, are most likely the ones that are doing the things they need to be doing already.

Standing at a podium and 'getting it told' on the news is only as effective as the listening pool. Has he taken his words to those that he seeks to uplift with them? Do they even know what he's done for the Black community outside of playing Dr. Huxtable? I doubt it.

I don't have an issue with what he is saying, but I do have an issue with him not saying it directly to those that need to hear it. I also have issue with his tone. He seems to have taken a bullying stance rather than one of....not coddling.....one of ...of....(thinking for the right word here)....encouraging change in the mindset of those that need it.

I have never liked generalities. I didn't like it when Noah The African did it, and I don't like it coming from BC. I don't like recognizing myself as a member of any specific class of people and having to be told I'm "this that or the other" because a vast number of people is this that or the other. All this throwing around of the phrases "black people this" and "black people that" ticks me off, because WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME.

I'm sure some would say "hey sharia, if you know that's not you, don't worry about it" but that's not the point. I am fully aware that the black community has it's share of bad attitudes, bad apples and plain 'do nothing' mentality, but don't attribute that to the entirety of the group and with blanket statements.

i'm off to court now.

I agree precisely with what Onyxelle has said. Many people could disparage him just because he got away with for what a white person might be branded as racist; but, surely, that Bill elicits press attention through being controversial is good even if only one person is changed by it. I remember, when I was in school, we raised enough over six years to save the life of a Guatemalan child who otherwise would have had no education. That we saved his one life was good enough.

I kind of find the whole thing pretty funny. Some of those quotes are priceless.

is it considered racist if a black man criticizes other black men?

It's not really considered racist if a black man criticizes white men, from what I've seen.

Cosby
Bill Cosby wasn't born rich and he has a long and good memory of those years. He is saying what needs to be said and from a position that will be accepted by those who need to hear his message. I congratulate Cosby.

Now if only some white man or woman would have the balls to tell white kids a similar message. In fact, everyone of every race should be telling kids this message.

BBB

Re: Cosby


ARE the people suffering from the mentality he's speaking on hearing his message? Aren't these the same (in every race I guess) people that are hanging out, doing illegalities (is that a word?), not taking care of their responsibilities....these are not the people that are watching the news or reading the newspapers wherein this message is reaching them.

Is he going into their neighborhood and reaching out to those who specifically need to hear this? I don't know, but the last speech of his like this that got this coverage was at an NAACP function. I haven't read one YET where he gave his speech in the middle of an 'urban' 'ghettoized' neighborhood.

onyxelle, You bring up a very good point, and I agree with you 100 percent. I'm sort of sitting on the fence, because I don't think "speeches" of his kind really helps too much, although some claim it may help one or five percent which makes it all worth his verbiage. I think there are more "constructive" ways to approach this problem with his access to the media, NAACP and other nonprofit organzations. I'd like to see a more universal approach to the societal problems at large that includes all races.

Cosby brings his frank talk to town
The value of Cosby's remarks is that they will (and are) starting conversations among people who can reach into the community of people who need to hear the message. Something was needed to spur the dialogue at the grass roots level. Cosby is doing it. ---BBB

Cosby brings his frank talk to town
Actor stands by earlier remarks
By Jamal Watson
Chicago Tribune staff reporter
Published July 2, 2004

Despite a storm of criticism, Bill Cosby's unvarnished call for African-Americans to take responsibility for their actions has not changed.

In fact, his talk Thursday at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's annual conference in Chicago was every bit as forceful as a speech he gave in May in Washington that drew protests from across the nation.

"This is the time, ladies and gentlemen, when we have to turn the mirror around and look at ourselves," said Cosby, whose tough talk at the Sheraton Chicago Hotel & Towers was greeted with applause and cheers. "We need to stop this. We cannot protect ourselves if the picture of ourselves is in a trough."

Most of the 1,000 participants who crowded into a conference room for breakfast and a panel discussion seemed to welcome the message.

To them, Cosby was just telling the truth. Some said they didn't understand the brouhaha that surfaced after comments Cosby made in May at a gala marking the 50th anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court's Brown vs. Board of Education decision. There, he said African-American families should take more responsibility for their education, transmitting strong morals and planning for the future.

"I don't know why that's seen as controversial," said Rasheed Wilson, 17, of Chicago. "I actually thought what he was saying was inspiring. He's talking about improving our community."

In what has become a recent crusade of his, the comedian-actor best known for his role as Heathcliff Huxtable on the Cosby Show from 1984 to 1992 said black parents should take a more active role in helping curtail the soaring high school dropout rate and pregnancy rate among black teens.

After the May speech at Constitution Hall, some black newspaper columnists, civil rights activists and intellectuals criticized Cosby for attacking America's black poor. They charged that his comments represented elitism and displayed his disconnect from the community's underclass.

In that speech, Cosby told the crowd that "the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids--$500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for `Hooked on Phonics.'"

On Thursday, he reiterated that his earlier criticism was not directed at all poor black people. Instead, he was emphasizing that the impact of the 1954 landmark Supreme Court decision--which outlawed segregation in public schools--had not been appreciated fully in certain quarters of urban America.

"I'm sorry. I was not talking about all," he said Thursday, adding that he remains concerned about the number of African-Americans who are illiterate and do not have a firm command of standard English. "This is an epidemic. We've got to do something about it."

The warm reception that Cosby received Thursday was a sign that his message, however controversial, has resonated with most African-Americans, said Rev. Jesse Jackson.

"Bill's point was to lift up, not to tear down," Jackson said in defense of his old friend.

But Tonya Bell, 36, of Chicago said Cosby, 66, is out of touch with the plight of poor African-Americans. The single mother of two teenage boys said she had read accounts of Cosby's statements but came to Thursday's talk to hear him in person.

"I don't think he understands how hard it is out here," she said. "Some of us are really trying hard to be good parents, but we are working two and three jobs to make ends meet. We can't always jump up and run up to the school when our kids are having problems. We just can't do it."

A lot of people here are making remarks about how he's "gettig away" with it because he is black.

That's understandable. When he's saying it it's clear that he's saying it out of a concern for his people's improvement, whereas when some others say those same words they see it as an affirmation of their prejudices, that blacks are inherently inferior.

It's not a double standard, it's just discernment (to the best of everyone's ability) of intent.

This is a good difference and not always possible to delienate.

I agree with your overall point craven, but I would still argue that it is a double standard. I'm just saying that this is an example where a double standard isn't a bad thing.

Maybe I'm just getting hung up on the definition of double standard. Isn't it a double standard when one person is (or would be) attacked or looked down on for saying something, and another person's words would be praised or at least accepted for saying the very same thing?

Kicky
Kicky, stop and think of what you would accept in the form of criticism from someone. A friend or family member may not be able to get through to you whereas someone from outside that circle may be able to because s/he is not in a position to threaten or hurt your feelings. I say whatever works to make positive change should be OK.

BBB

Fair enough. It's a double standard along the lines of:

"She gets to play with her boobs but I don't!!!!"



Not at all, unless you are not capable of recognizing contextual differences and differences of intent.

If I told you:

"I am going to kill you"

And a thief pointing a gun at you told you "I am going to kill you." you would probably react differently.

Not because of a "double standard" but because of an elementary ability to discern contextual difference.

Here, this is a glaringly obvious contextual difference.

Bill Cosby is saying this with an earnest desire to see uplifting.

IF a KKK member said it they might be trying to assert racial inferiority.

If you consider these two scenarios "the very same thing" then the problem is with your inability to discern the difference and not a "double standard".

Again, a sex example because I think this would help.

If you say to your wife: "I'm gonna screw you" and I say to your wife "I'm gonna screw you" is it "the very same thing"? Would you consider it a "double standard" if you were unable to treat both instances exactly the same?

No, it's recognition that words are representative and that the simplistic notion of taking words on face value and ignoring context makes no sense.

Okay, I see the difference. I think it's pretty subtle, but I see it. Thanks for using sex as an example. I got what you were saying from your first example, but anytime sex can be used to explain something, I'm all ears.

You're different from the other boys, aren't you, kicky.

I am. Let me show you how much. :wink:

Sorry.
I snorted.
You may need screen wipes.

I made someone snort! Cool!

You know, sometimes I wonder how much stuff that needs to be heard isn't said because people are so worried about being PC. Craven you watched me spend three pages defending a professional decision to hire people who speak proper English for sales positions. Why? Because some people are just too eager to point the finger and charge racism. Bill Cosby's words were a bit racist. He could just as easily have included some whites and Hispanics in his criticisms because there's no shortage of "them" who would benefit from realizing the truth in his words, too. Some things need saying, even if it isn't the ideal person doing the speaking.

If I'm behaving badly, I'd like to know, whether it be from friend or foe. And, if I were to consider the color of the speaker more than the words spoken than I would be the racist, no?

Bill,

You openly admitted to pre-judging blacks and expecting them to be ignorant, not speak English etc. And you expect not to catch flak?

Personally, I don't think your position was in any way similar to Cosby's except in circumstantial factors.

Cosby's not saying that he pre-judges blacks and expects them to behave in certain ways, he was saying that that behavior needs to change.

What you said was prejudice, and don't pretend that the flak you got was because of something similar. It's not because you are white, it's because you openly admitted to pre-judging and not on the basis of behavior but merely on the basis of race.

You "expected" it and I guess some people suspected that this was a self fulfilling prophecy.

And cut the "PC" crap. When people call you racist and you object are you bring "PC"?