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Quick Grammar Question

 
 
Gy273
 
Reply Sat 16 May, 2015 09:04 pm
I was having a conversation at work and I said "It isn't paper, I don't think.." and was told it was incorrect because it was a double negative. However, I think it sounds perfectly fine. Was I wrong and my co-worker right?
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Type: Question • Score: 8 • Views: 838 • Replies: 18
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FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 May, 2015 09:20 pm
@Gy273,
Gy273 wrote:

I was having a conversation at work and I said "It isn't paper, I don't think.." and was told it was incorrect because it was a double negative. However, I think it sounds perfectly fine. Was I wrong and my co-worker right?


Both of you are right in a way, I think. Strictly speaking, you said, 'I don't think it isn't paper.' Maybe not really a double negative, since each subject of each clause has its own verb. Double negatives are usually a negative verb plus a negative adverb, conjunction or pronoun. But upon strict analysis, you wound up saying the opposite of what you meant. So, while your co-worker might not be exactly right about why, it's still an error, strictly speaking.

On the other hand, it's a very common pattern. I prefer descriptive grammar over the prescriptive kind. If you'd said that to me, I'd never think twice about it. Maybe your co-worker is a bit anal. Wink
layman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 May, 2015 09:21 pm
@Gy273,
I think it "sounds" fine, as far as everyday speech goes.

That said, it probably is a double negative, if you consider it to be all one statement. This might be more apparent if you re-arrange the word order as follows:

"I don't think this (is/isn't) paper."

But, I would look at it as more or less a new sentence. This would be clear, for example:

This isn't paper. At least I don't think it is.

You are simply adding the proviso that you don't claim to be certain, that way.

0 Replies
 
Tes yeux noirs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2015 12:52 am
I agree with Layman. In conversation and informal writing, the rules may be relaxed. A remark like "It isn't paper, I don't think" would be easily understood, as Layman says to mean something like "It isn't paper, at least I don't think so". Tone of voice would reinforce this. Anyhow, Gy273, what kind of work place are you in where people correct your English? Where I work there is a guy with OCD and (I suspect) a touch of Asperger's who does this and everybody just lets it go, or else offers an explanation like above, but in general, someone who corrects your speech is being rude and where I come from would be called a "knob", if male, or else a "twat". Of course this could just be friendly banter, but that so easily shades off into bullying, one-upmanship or just plain showing-off.
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2015 02:03 am
@FBM,
Context rules! (Derrida again !)

Actually the double negative is common in English dialects but tends to be a "social marker". And in French a double negative has its residue in ne....pas, etc.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2015 02:12 am
@Gy273,
Note that A2K doesn't do "quick" on grammar issues Smile
.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2015 02:25 am
@Gy273,
If it isn't paper...

...and if you are not thinking...

...the sentence is just fine as written.

As a bit of conversation...it is just fine as is...even if you were thinking.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2015 10:03 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Context rules! (Derrida again !)

Actually the double negative is common in English dialects but tends to be a "social marker". And in French a double negative has its residue in ne....pas, etc.


It was very common where I grew up in the US. The teachers had to beat it out of us, so to speak. It's a necessary aspect of Korean language, too. In many situations, if you DON'T use a double negative, the reader/listener will be confused.

And, yes, context rules. Gotta hand that to Derrida. Speaking of which, I was able to separate him from his hangers-on and now I have a greater appreciation for his body of work. Thanks for inspiring me to give him a fair read.
0 Replies
 
Hatshepsut
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2015 05:25 pm
@Gy273,
There's no double negative, relaxed rules or strict. "It isn't paper" and "I don't think" are two separate sentences, each with one negative. The sentences are run together with a comma, but they're still independent.

It's not likely the second clause, "I don't think," will be perceived by the listener as negating the first clause. Instead, it will be heard as reinforcing it.

Double negatives are not ungrammatical anyway! They are usually avoided if a simpler sentence without any negative can be used instead, to make your writing clearer.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2015 04:06 pm
In my opinion, it's not paper.

In my opinion, it isn't paper.

Or: Anyone who thinks that that's paper doesn't have half the sense that God gave a goose. Smile

naraa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 May, 2015 12:22 am
@Gy273,
Dear All,

I want to ask correct me this title "Nomads of the Great Steppe and the Silk Road". Is it correct ? Could you correct me ? Thank you in advance
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 May, 2015 12:24 am
@naraa,
Looks good to me. You could take out that last 'the,' but it's not really important.
naraa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 May, 2015 11:29 pm
@FBM,
Thank you for your reply. I will take it out as you recommended.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 May, 2015 12:11 am
@naraa,
You're welcome. Best of luck to you!
saab
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 May, 2015 01:09 am
@Glennn,
Glenn
you have changed the meaning of the sentence.
"It isn´t paper, I don´t think "has a certain doubt in it. There still is a chance it is paper.
When you say "In my opinion...." there is not a chance for doubt and the other person just has to shut up. Now it is not a grammar question, but a question of opinion.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 May, 2015 01:20 am
@FBM,
Rolling Eyes ---------------> Drunk
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 May, 2015 01:37 am
@fresco,
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/dunno_1.gif
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 May, 2015 03:26 pm
It's plastic.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2015 10:38 am
@saab,
When someone says, “ It isn’t paper, I don’t think,” they are giving their opinion concerning the status of whatever it is that may, or may not, be paper.

According to Dictionary.com, an opinion is a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
0 Replies
 
 

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