12
   

Should Fathers Be Incarcerated for Child Support?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 11:40 am
@Ionus,
It's the case for at least one a2k family.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 12:24 pm
@Ticomaya,
I have read that some states run the deadbeat dad jailings through family court, which does not provide lawyers. Is that not correct?
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 04:53 pm
Here's my wrench in this.

Why don't fathers have any right to force or prevent an abortion? You fathered the child, now pay. Instead, You fathered the child, do you want it aborted?

jcboy
 
  5  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 05:21 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Here's my wrench in this.

Why don't fathers have any right to force or prevent an abortion? You fathered the child, now pay. Instead, You fathered the child, do you want it aborted?


Joefromchicago already answered this silly question over 11 years ago in this Thread

Quote:
Allow me to offer a hypothetical in the interests of shedding some light on this topic:

Driver accidentally hits Pedestrian, injuring her severely. Driver did not intend to hit Pedestrian, but it is clear that he was negligent and that he alone was responsible. Pedestrian's doctors give her a choice: she can have an operation to correct her injuries, or she can forego surgery. If she has the operation, she has a 50 percent chance of dying, but if she survives she will be 100 percent cured. On the other hand, if she foregoes surgery, her lifespan will not be shortened but will crippled for the rest of her life.

Pedestrian has brought a lawsuit against Driver. Driver can anticipate that, if Pedestrian decides to forego surgery he will have to pay $100,000 in damages. If she has surgery and dies, it is certain that he will pay at least $1 million or more in damages to Pedestrian's estate. And if she has the surgery and survives, Driver will have to pay $10,000.

As Pedestrian is weighing her medical options, Driver tells her: "since your decision will undoubtedly affect me, I should have a say in whatever choice you make. After all, it's not fair that you have 100 percent of the choice while I bear 100 percent of the financial burden. Therefore, in exchange for paying you $100,000 right now, I demand that you forego that operation. If, on the other hand, you choose to reject my offer and go ahead with the surgery, then I will be absolved of all responsibility and I won't be obligated to pay you (or your estate) anything."

Now, is that fair?

RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 06:11 pm
@McGentrix,
Only if the asshole has to carry the kid for 9 months.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:03 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Only if the asshole has to carry the kid for 9 months.


The way it should work is that the only way the man has to pay support is if he agrees to 3 months after conception. If he says no then the woman knows that if she chooses to have the baby then it is all on her. She chooses what to do with her body, she does not choose if the man signs up for being a dad. The two are different things.

EDIT: any husband should be able to demand a paternity test before he needs to support the kid his wife chooses to give birth too.

EDIT2: the state wanting to limit its expenses, or if it wants to max money flow to kids, is not an excuse to be unjust to men. A just society attempts to be fair to everyone.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
So, you would have a mother give a child's rights away forever.
Ionus
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:26 pm
@jcboy,
Quote:
Joefromchicago already answered this silly question over 11 years ago in this Thread
There are no silly questions . So how is a man alone responsible for a woman getting pregnant ? She knows here cycle, she knows if she is on the pill, she gets randy and loses control, she gets pregnant, she opts for no abortion, and he pays for 18 years for donating sperm . No wonder more men are engaging in homosexual activity .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:29 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Only if the asshole has to carry the kid for 9 months.


Yes, and women have periods, and child birth and the poor poor pitiful dears have it just awful when you think of all those women in the trenches in WW1 whilst their menfolk stayed safe at home .

So a man is an arsehole if he gets a woman pregnant ? Does that include your father as I am assuming you arent married, given your strong lesbian views .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:32 pm
@roger,
Quote:
So, you would have a mother give a child's rights away forever.

We already have fathers who have to give their rights away forever...mothers have the right to kill that child or keep it ....what about the child's rights ? What is your point ?
Ionus
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
All children should be maternity tested at birth so we can establish how many women are lying fraudulent little shits . If I lied on a tax form I would be hung . I can lie on a birth certificate (only if I am a woman, the poor poor dears) and defraud the man stupid enough to believe me for anywhere up to millions of dollars and nothing happens when I am found out (IF) because I am a woman and cheating is OK .
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:39 pm
@Ionus,
My point is that you would have to change a few laws for this to happen. At least in my country.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:45 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
the state wanting to limit its expenses, or if it wants to max money flow to kids, is not an excuse to be unjust to men. A just society attempts to be fair to everyone.
This is, to me, the heart of the matter and is worth emphasising .
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  4  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 10:53 pm
@Ionus,
Your two responses tell me everything I need to know. Rolling Eyes
Ticomaya
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 10:58 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
I have read that some states run the deadbeat dad jailings through family court, which does not provide lawyers. Is that not correct?

In my particular case, and it was in Kansas, it was through family court, and the state provided lawyers.
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 11:46 pm
@roger,
Then you were here not to debate but to lecture . I am quite happy to maintain a civil conversation with you, as I know you are very unlikely to get personal like others here .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 11:48 pm
Women have a lot of emotions tied up in getting pregnant, and their fears are what are dictating our laws rather than equality or common sense .
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2015 11:54 pm
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
I have read that some states run the deadbeat dad jailings through family court, which does not provide lawyers. Is that not correct?

In my particular case, and it was in Kansas, it was through family court, and the state provided lawyers.


Are you claiming to be ignorant of Turner v Rogers? Talking about your personal experience reads as a dodge.

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/turner-v-price/
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2015 12:07 am
@hawkeye10,
I think that would be professional, not personal experience.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2015 12:38 am
@roger,
Apparently these things are true

1) SCOTUS said that states dont have to offer a lawyer before they jail deadbeat dads

2) some states dont

Quote:
That's the narrow legal issue behind a case the Supreme Court hears today. The Sixth Amendment establishes that the defendant in a criminal case has a right to counsel, but failure to pay child support is a civil matter: It's violation of a civil court order, not a crime. The question before the court is whether the imposition of a long jail term (in this particular case, one year) effectively imposes criminal punishment for the civil contempt charge, and whether, and under what circumstances, the state can deprive an individual of his liberty without providing counsel. Most states do provide a lawyer under these circumstances, but some (including Florida, Georgia, Maine, Ohio and South Carolina) do not. Those states argue, among other things, that there's no need to provide a lawyer for a defendant who has his own "key" to his cell: payment of the amount owed or a smaller amount set by the court.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2011/03/23/can_the_state_imprison_a_deadbeat_dad_for_up_to_a_year_without_counsel_what_if_he_cant_pay.html

3) transcripts are not taken in these proceedings so it is impossible to tell if alleged deadbeat dads are actually offered lawyers in the states that claim to provide them

Tico saying that he once saw deadbeat dads getting lawyers in Kansas is non responsive.
 

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