18
   

What to Make of polygamy?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 02:46 pm
@Olivier5,
If other species can and do mate for life I dont see why humans cant. The not having fun with others I find to be no fun and not a good idea however.
argome321
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 02:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
If other species can and do mate for life I dont see why humans cant.


1) variety is the spice of life
2) notches on your belt
3)Share the wealth)
4)physical attractions
5) more women than men
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Apr, 2015 09:08 am
@hawkeye10,
What mammal species do mate for life?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Apr, 2015 09:27 am
@Olivier5,
That was not my claim, but Gibbons are one.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Apr, 2015 09:29 am
@hawkeye10,
There are many types of gibbons. Which ones?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Apr, 2015 10:10 am
I have heard it said that many primate species, including humans, practice serial monogamy. This is where a couple will be committed to each other for a period of time, and then move on.

My experience is that humans do exactly that. Some people stay married for life... but many (if not most) married people will admit that this does not come naturally.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Apr, 2015 11:55 am
This woman, currently in the news, appears to be practicing her own brand of polyandry. Wink

A Bride Ten Times Over, Bronx Woman Faces Fraud Charges
http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2015/04/10/a-bride-ten-times-over-bronx-woman-faces-fraud-charges/

Bronx Woman’s 10 Marriages, Not All of Them Over, Lead to Fraud Charges
By ANDY NEWMAN APRIL 9, 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/10/nyregion/bronx-womans-10-marriages-not-all-of-them-over-lead-to-fraud-charges.html
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Apr, 2015 02:40 pm
@Olivier5,
Since he said species and not mammals, I will throw in Canada Geese.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Fri 10 Apr, 2015 03:02 pm
What to Make of polygamy?

not sure, I will say the worst thing made of polyester were leisure suits
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Apr, 2015 06:23 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

There are many types of gibbons. Which ones?

I checked and wiki says all gibbon species (several dozens) mate for life. However, their "dynamic pair-bonding" mating systems are said to be analogous to "swingers", which I suppose means that sexual exclusivity is not required. That's not really monogamy.
argome321
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2015 05:54 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I checked and wiki says all gibbon species (several dozens) mate for life. However, their "dynamic pair-bonding" mating systems are said to be analogous to "swingers", which I suppose means that sexual exclusivity is not required. That's not really monogamy.


Why do we care how other animals act in reference to this topic ? We're humans. We aren't bound by other animals behavior?

Anyone here planning to marry or get involved outside their species?
carloslebaron
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2015 07:04 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:

We are talking about DNA evidence... which is real hard science... that suggests that at this period in human history very few men fathered children with 17 women each (while the other men were childless).

The rest is speculation... but you can't argue with a scientific fact.


No, the only "fact" is a genetic finding , not so an explanation of what happened.

The hypothesis trying to explain why a few men fathered so many children from a lot of women is just that, mere speculations.

Men might be few due to wars, and farmers were in need of many children (from several wives) because hands are needed for hard work, that's all.

We didn't see the same in cultures which came later simply because instead of having lots of wives and lots of children, the new societies acquired "slaves" to do the farm work.

0 Replies
 
carloslebaron
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2015 07:32 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
Monogamy in Southern Europe was based on the Greek homosexual society . If you only wanted a wife for breeding then you only needed one . Middle East society was the alpha male has a lot of wives and his sons engage in warfare to get wives . This was recorded in the Bible as the '"land of milk and honey"...it wasnt about cows and bees, it was about sex for the men who would conquer Canaan . This is also why the Bible says a man with many sons is blessed . He's safe, but anyone with lots of daughters is in trouble .


Completely out of context.

"Rivers of honey and milk" have practically a literal meaning, not so a symbolic one.

Whatever happened in that event of the Exodus, that was a worldwide event recorded by other cultures are well.

The famous "manna" was a substance of white color and sweet flavor. The Greeks called it ambrosia and also fell from heaven. The Rig-Veda hymns described it as a sweet nectar, also falling from the clouds. All these and more similar records come from the same epoch.

What the bible declares for man is that he can have more than one wife, however, there is no special curse or blessing if the children are male or female, such idea has no foundation at all.

The bible just avoid mentioning the name of female descendants in genealogical records, but this is not a sign of cursing women.

Monogamy and polygamy is found in other species and no indication of genetic trembling is the cause. Males fight to obtain the leadership and be the only ones to mate the females in certain species, in other species a male choses a female and stays with his mate.

Sometimes, the so called "genetic record fact" is followed by so many hypothesis without parameter, because some are sound and others are so ridiculous...

0 Replies
 
carloslebaron
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2015 07:51 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Fine, but can we also agree that if science is right during this time 8000 years either lots of men were not ******* or else lots of males turned up dead before they could?


People change when other societies cause influence on them. It was an African small society which worshiped reproduction and conception. This small town had the rule for men and women to have sex one time a year only.

In that day, women went to hide in the forest and men were to look for them. After that day, women who got pregnant obtained some privileges, while the one who didn't became their servants.

Because this kind of system to reproduce, their number was the same average throughout generations.

We can't obtain an accurate explanation of what might cause polygamy or monogamy in cultures that existed thousands of years ago, unless written records -even hieroglyphics- are found to explain it.. otherwise... whatever we say today is just mere speculations

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2015 08:55 am
@argome321,
We are animals too, least we forget. Our mating instincts must have been shaped by millions of years of evolution. This has sprung a cottage industry of studies -- and quite a few A2K threads -- on whether or not some of our present sexual and mating behaviours are genetically programmed, or whether they are at a variance with our 'natural' drives.

argome321
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2015 10:18 am
@Olivier5,

Quote:
We are animals too, least we forget. Our mating instincts must have been shaped by millions of years of evolution. This has sprung a cottage industry of studies -- and quite a few A2K threads -- on whether or not some of our present sexual and mating behaviours are genetically programmed, or whether they are at a variance with our 'natural' drives.


As you see below my original statement mentions that we are animals. I would never say that we aren't. I'm just saying that our particular version;we humans ,our behavior isn't govern by other animals. We are just a different variation of primates with different mental and physical skill sets.


"Why do we care how other animals act in reference to this topic ? We're humans. We aren't bound by other animals behavior?"
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2015 11:06 am
@argome321,
Right. As i see it, our natural mating patterns have been 'lost', buried as they are everywhere under the weight of different cultures. The cultural rules of courting, marriage, sex and other things.

I personally don't see culture as bad and nature as good or vice versa, and am not convinced that there ever was a unique 'state of nature' for human mating practices. But if there is at least a common matrix shaped by our evolution, it's worth studying it to understand our common nature AND our diverse cultures.

Now, comparing human with their nearest cousins is one way to go about studying this. It stands to reason that primates, and mammals in general, have some general resemblance in the way their societies are working 'in the wild'. Mammals are defined by their complex reproduction system, in which the female plays a central (and risky) role through gestation and lactation. As a result as as Max rightly pointed out, mammal males are generally expandable (and stronger), while females are precious (and weaker). This is just one consequence that may explain "women and children first", men going to war, the rule that a man must protect his wife from violent attack, and all these sorts of things. But this natural contrast between females and males among mammals may have other consequences, eg in sexuality or mating habits.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2015 11:59 am
@Olivier5,
Interesting. We are becoming a post religious society at the same time that I have been saying for 30 years that we dont support marriage, and now we see that the young are very rapidly choosing to not get a marriage contract. Could it be that "he is my mate today, we will see if he is tomorrow" is natural pattern for humans? For my entire life I have watched the rules being imposed on individuals weaken, watch individuals increasingly do what ever they want to do, and we clearly are moving towards not wanting to get married.

I am not sure how this plays into this thread topic, but I do know that 20-30 years ago when I made the claim that we as a society do not support marriage I got almost universal vigorous rebuttal, and now I dont.
0 Replies
 
argome321
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2015 12:19 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Now, comparing human with their nearest cousins is one way to go about studying this. It stands to reason that primates, and mammals in general, have some general resemblance in the way their societies are working 'in the wild'. Mammals are defined by their complex reproduction system, in which the female plays a central (and risky) role through gestation and lactation. As a result as as Max rightly pointed out, mammal males are generally expandable (and stronger), while females are precious (and weaker). This is just one consequence that may explain "women and children first", men going to war, the rule that a man must protect his wife from violent attack, and all these sorts of things. But this natural contrast between females and males among mammals may have other consequences, eg in sexuality or mating habits.


Save, as our intellect develops we rely more and more one our intellect and less on instinct. We also know that women are taking a lager roll in what our society once considered traditional male roles including fighting in combat.

You know technology has changed our sexual habits as birth control methods are made more available. There is in vitro fertilization etc. There is a more liberal open attitude towards sex that didn't exist even 20 years ago.

What is played out on tv today sexually would have been considered soft porn 20 years ago.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2015 01:39 pm
@argome321,
Quote:
Save, as our intellect develops we rely more and more one our intellect and less on instinct. We also know that women are taking a lager roll in what our society once considered traditional male roles including fighting in combat.

You know technology has changed our sexual habits as birth control methods are made more available. There is in vitro fertilization etc. There is a more liberal open attitude towards sex that didn't exist even 20 years ago.

What is played out on tv today sexually would have been considered soft porn 20 years ago.

I understand the darwinian argument is often used against feminism. This is not my personal purpose here. Just saying there's a tension between culture and nature, that is more often than not religiously-enforced. As religion tends to lose its relevance in the West, people have asked themselves question about marriage and monogamy. It comes down to: Should I get married or not?

0 Replies
 
 

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