18
   

What to Make of polygamy?

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 11:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I know, it's just an illustration of a practice that must have been quite common.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 10:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
I dont believe that either the study or anyone in this thread has made any claims about marriage.

I believe a number of us did. By definition, polygamy is "the state or practice of being married to more than one person at the same time". Hence, it is logically impossible to talk about polygamy without talking about marriage.

Hawkeye wrote:
How would we even go about knowing what intimate relationship looked like then?

We wouldn't. But then again, we also wouldn't know if these ancient tribes were actually polygamic or not. If they had been officially monogamic and the men had inofficially slept around a lot, the DNA traces would be the same.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 10:31 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
I believe a number of us did. By definition, polygamy is "the state or practice of being married to more than one person at the same time". Hence, it is logically impossible to talk about polygamy without talking about marriage.


BS, Polygamy is one man being in UNION with more than one female, marriage is but one of a great many forms that this could take. I am surprised at you Thomas, I never had you pegged as an old fart with old ideas.

Quote:
But then again, we also wouldn't know if these ancient tribes were actually polygamic or not. If they had been officially monogamic and the men had inofficially slept around a lot, the DNA traces would be the same.
which means that we KNOW that 16 of 17 either got none ever or were dead. This is a big deal to me for many reasons, on of which I am sure that our genetic coding still reads from that time, what men passed along then mattered a lot. What did these 1 of 17 have that others did not and passed it on to me? Was it being a killer? Was it beating women and making them submit to me and then conquering them with a good long hard **** with more beatings?

I'd kinda like to know.

Sue me.





farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 11:29 pm
@hawkeye10,
Are the Tibetan clans the only ones who practice polyandry? Any societies other than that one where a woman has two or more husbands?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 11:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
see polygamy v polygyny
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 12:51 am
@farmerman,
But - as a male - all that is still better than polyandry. Wink
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 03:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I was intrested in knowing whether there are any other communities where polyandry was practiced ?,
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 05:38 am
@farmerman,
In De bello Gallico, Caesar reported that the ancient Britons, ten or twelve men (fathers and sons, and brothers together), would hold their wives in common.
The most civilized of all these nations are they who inhabit Kent, which is entirely a maritime district, nor do they differ much from the Gallic customs. Most of the inland inhabitants do not sow corn, but live on milk and flesh, and are clad with skins. All the Britains, indeed, dye themselves with wood, which occasions a bluish color, and thereby have a more terrible appearance in fight. They wear their hair long, and have every part of their body shaved except their head and upper lip. Ten and even twelve have wives common to them, and particularly brothers among brothers, and parents among their children; but if there be any issue by these wives, they are reputed to be the children of those by whom respectively each was first espoused when a virgin. (De bello Gallico, 5.14)
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 08:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
like the Australian Brush Turkey. They have communal fresh compost nests and a "Turkette" will be serviced by several males and they then make a big communal nest and the eggs gestate and hatch on their own from the heat generated by the compost.

Not really a "polyandry" like some fish , but its close.


Still, Only the Tibetans practice polyandry today??
- http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BrushTurkey1_MtCootThaBrisbane_2012_08_19.jpg#/media/File:BrushTurkey1_MtCootThaBrisbane_2012_08_19.jpg [/img]
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 09:12 am
@farmerman,
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/02/when-taking-multiple-husbands-makes-sense/272726/

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12110-012-9144-x

Quote:
Abstract

We have identified a sample of 53 societies outside of the classical Himalayan and Marquesean area that permit polyandrous unions. Our goal is to broadly describe the demographic, social, marital, and economic characteristics of these societies and to evaluate some hypotheses of the causes of polyandry. We demonstrate that although polyandry is rare it is not as rare as commonly believed, is found worldwide, and is most common in egalitarian societies. We also argue that polyandry likely existed during early human history and should be examined from an evolutionary perspective. Our analysis reveals that it may be a predictable response to a high operational sex ratio favoring males and may also be a response to high rates of male mortality and, possibly, male absenteeism. Other factors may contribute, but our within-polyandry sample limits analysis.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 09:16 am
@ehBeth,
That is really interesting EhBeth. I learned something new today.

The idea that a child can have two heterosexual fathers is not something I have ever considered before.

0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 09:19 am
@farmerman,
from the comments section

http://www.kashgar.com.au/articles/Polyandry-or-the-practice-of-taking-multiple-husbands

Quote:
Om Parkash Monga · Professor of Sociology-cum-Associate Dean at Shoolini University of Biotechnology and Management Sciences


Polyandry is recognised to have its roots in religious epic 'The Mahabharata'. Fragmentation of land has been the sole issue. Not only, the tribal communities, but the rich have also adored this practice, the reason for them was status identity and political power.

Socio-economic developments saw societies banning this practice and made monogamy as the constitutionally recognised practice of marriage.

Surprisingly, traditional practice of polyandry mostly practiced by tribal communities has survived onslaught of socio-economic developments and constitutional interventions. In India, it is resurging again.

For instance, Mansa area in the state of Panjab, has come to be known as to adopt polyandry by the Jat Sikhs in villages. The reasons are economic and demographic i.e. poverty and dwindling sex ratio. It is also true in areas in Distric Karnal of Haryana where fragmentation of land is major issue but decreasing sex ratio has coupled with it.

Perspectives among us have realised, Is polyandry catching up in contemporary society / This question is relevant at global level as well because world community is becoming tolerant to polyandry.


Prof. O P Monga (Sociology)-cum-Associate Dean, Faculty of Management Sciences and Liberal Arts, Shoolini University of Biotechnology and management Sciences , Solan (hP)-173212, India.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 10:06 am
@ehBeth,
Gret Article. I do not recall reaading that issue .
I knew the Unami clan of Leni Lenape and several of the great lkes tribes were polyandrous. I like the fact that "Western Anthropologists" had a problem with believing their evidence of polyandry.


0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 11:40 am
@hawkeye10,
The discussion on mariage is interesting. Maybe marriage (defined as a long term partnership or union between a man and a woman) was invented after the period in question, as a solution to the problem of excessive domination of the gene pool by a few powerful males. Thinking out loud here, but that's how it goes:

Let's assume that the practice of one dominant male screwing all the females of the clan, a classic among primates e.g. gorillas, was prevalent among paleolithic people. The practice can be seen as a way to accelerate evolution by allowing access to fertile females only to the most successful males in the clan. It must have a name already but I don't know it. Oligoandry? (oligo=few + andros=man)

Now let's assume that, by becoming better and better at agriculture, these clans practicing 'oligoandry' became larger and larger. More and more people live under the rule of one 'big male', and this big male keeps screwing any female he can put his hands on, beating other males up when he finds them doing it, and keeping most available food for himself, his kids and most attentive females and minions, with only enough for survival given to the peons. This could explain the 1/17 ratio.

But shrinking that ratio that far may have created severe consanguinity problems, after a few generations. Imagine a village where only one male fathers all or nearly all the kids during a period of, say, 10 or 15 years, and then when he gets too old, his son (who else) does the same for another 10 years, etc. After a few generations, this village will have very high consanguinity levels.

Which leads me to this idea of the invention of marriage as a possible solution to this problem. Marriage could be the way humans managed to solve the competition for females problem in ever larger communities, by allocating certain females exclusively to certain males and thus setting limits to the rights of the headman to screw everybody.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 12:12 pm
@Olivier5,
Germanic people had more than one form of socially acceptable and binding union between men and women until the 12th/13th century.
And Frankish law recognized two distinct forms of marriage: Muntehe and Friedelehe. (Muntehe was formal, permanent and involved the transfer of property from one family to another. Friedelehe was an official marriage, but it was often temporary and did not require the transfer of property.)
Marriage as we know it today, was introduced through the influence of the Roman Catholic Church, and followed the ancient Roman culture. (Under Roman law, the couple’s consent was essential in sealing a marriage. Indeed, no written contract or formal ceremony was necessary.)

Interestingly, under this Roman law the age for engagements was lowered from 12 years to 7.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 01:08 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
In Ethiopia, they have four or five different types of marriage contracts, including short-term ones.

When and why do you think marriage was invented?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 01:21 pm
@Olivier5,
I was reading just a day or so ago how in iran they have short term marriage contracts, basically a way to pay your way into to having legal sex without being saddled with a real wife.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 01:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
This is in all Islam, not only Iran. When a man travels to a place where he will stay for a while, sharia allows him to marry there for a short while. Compensations apply. I forgot the name of it. It's often use as a way to disguise prostitution. It lays somewhere between marriage and prostitution.

In Mauritania, all marriages are short-term, typically 3-5 years, and monogamous, in spite of Islam. The wife's goals include getting as much money as possible from her husband while he lasts, so the difference between marriage and prostitution is somewhat blurred in this case.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 02:07 pm
@Olivier5,
I think temporary marriages are a great idea. The difference between marriage and prostitution has always been blurred (even the traditional permanent kind).
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 02:40 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I think temporary marriages are a great idea.

I agree. I see Jesus' alleged insistence on banning divorce ("what God united, let not man separate") as a grave mistake, perhaps one of his gravest, one which only an idealistic, young, unmarried dude could make. He had no clue what he was talking about. As a result, Christianity has always been unrealistic about marriage, unlike Islam and Judaism.
 

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