9
   

Could there possibly be an edge to existence itself.

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 06:55 am
@argome321,
One of the authors Fresco keeps name-dropping is Piaget, according to whom children realize the permanence of objects when out of sight at around 2-3 years of age...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 07:06 am
@Olivier5,
We "all" have studied Piaget in high school and the permanence of objects test...yes Fresco is found of Piaget but he always neglects talking about that bit.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 08:49 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Surprise, surprise ! So humans are all programmed to expect "permanent objects"! Have I ever denied that "naive realism" is the default mode for everyday operations ?
Piaget was a seminal figure in the constructivist and systems transition approaches to cognition. Criticisms of him tend to center on his lack of attention to language, but the significance of his approach which aimed to "account for" logical thought, was that obviously he could not use "logic" within his exposition. Casual readers are usually not aware of the epistemological significance of that point, especially with respect to "metalogical " paradigms in frontier physics.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 09:43 am
@fresco,
Fresco, I know you will not mind if I enter this in the Jargon/try to sound erudite thread...so I will.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 11:12 am
@Frank Apisa,
Esoteric erudition, for sure, Frank
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 11:19 am
@fresco,
Quote:
...."metalogical " paradigms in frontier physics


Hilarious!.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 11:23 am
@Frank Apisa,
...hmmm...I didn't bother to reply.
Wish all the best to Fresco but he is impossible to deal with.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 11:49 am
@fresco,
A veritable smorgasbord of sagacity.

Yum!
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 02:30 pm
@layman,
"Metalogical paradigms" refers for example to aspects of quantum theory which reject the law of the excluded middle. Hilarious for hyenas perhaps.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 03:20 pm
@fresco,
Human being are pre-programmed robots now? Programmed by whom?

Each and every human DISCOVERS the permanence of things, Fresco. Even you did... Then you forced yourself to de-discover it when posturing as a philosopher. I suspect you still look for your keys when you misplace them, though... :-)
layman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 03:49 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Metalogical paradigms" refers for example to aspects of quantum theory which reject the law of the excluded middle


Hysterical! That's not what "metalogic" is. You're simply referring to an alternative logic. With your vast command of all relevant literature, can you cite even one useage of the term "metalogical paradigm" that refers to quantum theory?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 05:37 pm
I think this one fits the mood, lets go silly ! Wink

0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2015 12:30 am
@layman,
http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah99/davidrs1/hyena_cartoon_by_hodarinundu-d63ww55_zpsslf3i7ca.jpg
layman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2015 12:34 am
@fresco,
Quote:
With your vast command of all relevant literature, can you cite even one useage of the term "metalogical paradigm" that refers to quantum theory?


I take it that this is your way of saying "No, I can't," eh, Fresky?
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2015 01:01 am
@layman,
Layaboutman, allow me to congratulate you on a feeble rejoinder to your failure to answer my question about you being thrown off other forums.

Like others engaged in philosophy and psychology, I may use original phrases to summarize and transmit my ideas. Indeed I am entitled and expected to do so. I am not going to dig out the notes I used when teaching Piaget to find whether I have a reference for a neurotic heckler such as yourself.
layman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2015 01:08 am
@fresco,
Quote:
...a neurotic heckler such as yourself


Sorry to heckle you, Fresky. I hate to have to do it, but, ya see, it's the only rational, appropriate response that occurs to me when you post that kinda B. S.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2015 01:21 am
@layman,
...said the drop out who thought Euclidean geometry was B.S. !

Time to put you back in your "ignore the troll cage" I think. You can have fun running round your SR hamster wheel in there .
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2015 02:13 am
@Olivier5,
You know how you are sensitized to hearing your own name in somebody else's conversation across the room ? Well I suggest your own interest in "informational epistemology" has sensitized you to the word "programmed" with all the trappings that you wish to bring to it.
I am using it to denote a structural stage in an autopoietic (living) system which such systems inherit genetically by virtue of successful survival of their "parents" who utilized that structure. I do not require "cause" for the emergence of autopoietic systems or what we define as their stages of structure, since the principle of "spontaneous emergence" has been established elsewhere. (Prigogine)
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2015 06:15 am
@Olivier5,
Sorry, in the post above I thought I was addressing Fil. The "informational epistemology" point does not apply to you as far as I know. The second para stands.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2015 07:49 am
@fresco,
There is no "emergence" and there is no "cause" Fresco...both terms are...how shall I put it, insufficient in my pov. Reality as a whole is timeless.
"Cause" or "emergence" are attempts to describe the process perceived within time and space. But the order is done. Words like "programmed" fall into the same time trap. Its not that they are wrong but rather that they mislead...

...with one order established throughout the whole of existence top to end nothing is programmed and everything seems programmed...same goes for causal explanations...

...with "emergence" is even worse...the wording does not even attempt at pattern explaining...it just stands for magic show up as time passes...

I understand both words perhaps better then most here, pardon my arrogance...it seems to me that others are the ones having trouble with my own lingo...I don't blame them...I like to talk to myself and am used to it by now...

...this one is for free, you can capitalize on this last bit ! have a go... Wink
 

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