Surgeon: Human body did not evolve

@Ionus,

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No more so than YOU are required to answer who created the Big Bang or dimensions .

Not who...what.

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@giujohn,

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Not who...what.

And the answer is....

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@farmerman,

I am a firm believer in the panspermia theory.

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@giujohn,

I wrote:

Why not an agent that has always been in place?

giujohn wrote:

In place where?

Where needed.
Very Happy

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@Ionus,

A random fluxuation in the quantum foam...and there are probably an infinite number of universes that have been/ are being created. Not all like ours but odds are some. They create/occupy their own space and do not interact with one another.

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@neologist,

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Why not an agent that has always been in place?

Your human need for order causes you to invent a being who controls. The universe is random, so why not its begining?
The only thing that has always been there is the quantum foam.

Evolution is a product of this universe where everything evolves including the universe itself.

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@giujohn,

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A random fluxuation (fluctuation) in the quantum foam

So what stops that from happening now and eliminating our universe ? Do you know how much energy is required to turn quantum foam into anything of size ? And what made the randomness ?

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there are probably an infinite number of universes that have been/ are being created.

That is gibberish you have repeated like a good religious servant . Do you know where that comes from ?

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@Ionus,

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So what stops that from happening now and eliminating our universe ? Do you know how much energy is required to turn quantum foam into anything of size ? And what made the randomness ?

Your quote belies the fact that you do not have an undersatnding of the quantum foam. And nothing makes the randomness... I doubt you are able to grasp the meaning of nothingness given your above quote. It may sound like "gibberish" to someone who thinks in terms of classical physics and the macro world. It is hard for those of convention to wrap their heads around anything but a 3 dimensional analysis.

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@giujohn,

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Your quote belies the fact that you do not have an undersatnding of the quantum foam.

Oh but I do....I bet you dont however .

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And nothing makes the randomness.

Aha. Nothing makes something . Or randomness always existed . It is your God .

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I doubt you are able to grasp the meaning of nothingness given your above quote.

Oh, I dont know....why dont you give it a try...maybe my very limited intelligence will learn something from someone who has a grasp on it .

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@giujohn,

Are you saying evolution is random?
I did not think there was universal agreement on this; some claiming it to be a function of the DNA code.

As far as the random universe is concerned, let us hope the day continues at 24 hours, at least for the time being. . . . . . .

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@neologist,

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Are you saying evolution is random?

Yes. As in random mutation and in random occurances that change the course of natual selection

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@giujohn,

I don't think random is quite the correct term--I'd use chaotic, possibly even recursively chaotic.

Rap

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@raprap,

yeh, nat selection isn't random , its responsive totally. Mutation may appear random but mutations can only occur with given gene complements already there. It cannot "create" a whole new batch of genes or chromosomes. Mutations are miss- splices, bad copies, doubling (or tripling and misalignement), SNPs .

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@Ionus,

For giujohn

In the BELIEF that you found the discussion too difficult, I shall continue .

QUANTUM FOAM :

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At the quantum level, matter and antimatter particles are constantly popping into existence and popping back out, with an electron-positron pair here and a top quark-antiquark pair there. This behavior is the reason that scientists call these ephemeral particles "quantum foam": It's similar to how bubbles in foam form and then pop.

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The idea that space is a bubbling brew of ephemeral particles sounds like complete nonsense, but the idea has been confirmed. In 1948, a physicist named Hendrik Casimir realized that if you placed two metal plates near each other, separated by a very small distance, the quantum foam would cause them to move. To visualize this, remember that quantum particles are also waves. Between the plates, only waves (particles) with wavelengths smaller than the separation between the plates can exist. Outside the gap, waves (particles) of all wavelengths can exist. Thus there are more particles outside the gap than inside, and the imbalance pushes the two plates together. This effect has been observed.

The above quotes are from Fermilab . However, there is further experimental evidence both for and against Quantum Foam . If it does exists, then it practically guarantees the coming into being (creation?) of the universe because of the principle of totalitarianism, which is that if something is not impossible due to quantum mechanical processes, then it must occur . Thus, the Universe .

NOTHING or NOTHINGNESS:
Does not exist . Empty space is full of Quantum Foam . Or not .

As for multi-verses, they exist in imagination because we can not measure accurately all of location, direction, speed, spin, charge and colour of sub-atomic particles at the same time . To take this unknown and extrapolate multiple universes is simply trying to fill every void with knowledge . Maybe we should admit we will never know everything . Incidentally, if they do exist, religion came up with them first .

How am I doin' ?? Very Happy

Am I keeping up with you ?

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If there's one thing i love, it's recursive chaos . . . as long as i'm not driving, of course . . .

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@neologist,

The day is not 24 hours long--we have a cheat in place which is adjusted every fourth year. You could move to Mars, where the day is 24 hours, 39 minutes and some odd seconds--you know, so you would feel that you're getting your money's worth.

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@Setanta,

Drats.
No wonder I was late for lunch.

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If i were a native of Mars, i'd still be under 40 years old.

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@giujohn,

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I am a firm believer in the panspermia theory

"belief without evidence is a symptom of modern religion"
Many folks "believe" in pnspermia. There are whole pop TV "Science shows" that begin with this assertion and then, cleverly, present features of populations as "evidence" for this hypothesis.
Im not aware of ANY evidence that nails even a classroom discussion about panspermia.

Some scientists. like Dr Crick, had been fans of it but they always beg off the inconvenient missing evidence.

If we look at some other groups of animals that share our own adaptive radiation ,I would submit that we consider the many genera of PIGS Suids .
Pigs are highly intelligent, mobile, adaptive, and quite fecund. (Pigs are my candidate for the remaining pinnacle species when humans wipe themselves off the planet). Pigs have a very visible trail of evolutionary evidence (much better than hominims), .
The point is, no one would entertain the possibility that pigs were "created" or "Assisted in their development" by intergalactic intersession.
Pigs have a similar "out of Africa" history with several burps and bottlenecks that mimic our own species.

SO, when you get too far into "believing" in panspermia, consider the not-so-lowly pig.

We can pretty easily track its entire history via palontology ND BY INFERENCE, USING "FOSSIL GENES" IN LIVING VARIETALS.

And besides, they are quite delicious.

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@giujohn,

giujohn wrote:

I am a firm believer in the panspermia theory.

Wow...a "FIRM" guess!

This place is like a vaudeville hall.

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Surgeon: Human body did not evolve

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