Proof of God

Derren Brown makes his career as a magician/illusionist, (I think he actually describes himself as a mentalist) and he's very good. His shows are very good and well worth watching. I was always a fan, that is until my daughter bought me one of his books for Father's Day. I thought it was going to be a really good read about the life of a professional magician, maybe a little bit about how certain things were done, not that I was expecting him to give away all his tricks mind you, maybe some of the more well known illusions, like a lot of magic books.

Not at all, it was just one long rant about why there is no God, (and there was no hint of that in the blurb on the back.) I felt totally ripped off, and more importantly so did my daughter. One thing he wrote did stick out though, he used to be a very evangelical Christian, and he thought that would surprise his readers. It didn't surprise me in the slightest, he's quite ardent and fanatical, he just changed the object of his fanaticism. Instead of thinking he has a mission to turn everyone into Christians he now thinks he has a mission to turn everyone into Atheists, and I suspect his homosexuality may have something to do with his conversion.

Like a lot of people who bought his book in good faith, I think he's got a bit of a brass neck talking about charlatans because his book was nothing at all like it was described in the blurb. By all means he should be allowed to write a book like that, but he should be honest enough to say what the book is really about, instead he used the same underhand tactics of the TV evangelists he so despises.

I can't watch his shows any more, I just find him totally dishonest.

Great!
Then, would you be so kind as to disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I've always guessed that it sounds ridiculous.

Ta dah!
If God will not let me do as I please, then he must not exist.
Never mind the scriptures you despise may also contain the solution to your dysphoria.

You are mistaking "it is not impossible to prove a negative" for "it is possible to prove every negative."

If you want to see that a negative can be proven...make the following negative assertion: If I open the top drawer of my desk, there will not be any live elephants in there.

Then open the drawer.

By the way, the statement "you cannot prove a negative" IS a negative. If you were to prove it...you would be proving it wrong.

Are you saying there are dead elephants in your dresser drawer

It is the human condition that we are evil and wicked without God in the afterlife. If you have heard of evil spirits and demons, you have heard of hell. Hell is very real.

Turn it around.

I think he's just a preachy person, which, like Patches, makes a pain in the arse. I said his homosexuality may have something to do with his Atheism. I doubt very much it was the sole reason.

The soul does not survive death. The Bible clearly says when you're dead, you're dead.

If any consequence other than death faced Adam and Eve, God would certainly have warned them.

Resurrection, should it happen, is a gift not bestowed on all.

The light bulb moment came as I recognized a certain a2ker who 10 years ago claimed to be an ordained minister asserting the Bible allowed homosexuality. He has since abandoned all religion.

No...I am saying that your statement that one cannot prove a negative...

...is incorrect.

It would be nice to see you acknowledge you are wrong.

You certainly can check Google for information on the issue before doing so.

Which is basically your own prejudices manifesting themselves. If you truly 'Love they neighbour as thyself,' you shouldn't condemn homosexuals, a lot of whom are far more decent people than most 'Christians' I've met.

But I've said before, I don't condemn homosexuals. They are no different in God's eyes than those who smoke, cheat on their spouses, or their taxes. God does not assign moral laws to restrict our freedoms, but to protect us from what may be unforseen consequences. That we may be too enamored with our own intelligence to see those consequences does not repeal the law.

All reductos aside.

I said earlier in this thread the fact that no proof exists for the negative is not permission to accept the positive.

You cannot prove God does not exist. If it were possible, we all would be atheists. Conversely, you cannot prove with epistemological certainty that God does exist. This does not allow us to assert the negative. In fact, am I wrong in declaring this amounts to the logic behind your profession of agnosticism?

You said it was illogical to suppose one could prove a negative.

You are wrong.

Why not simply own up to being wrong? Then you can start asking me questions about my agnosticism.

You view it as something wrong, based on nothing but religious dogma. That's condemning in my book.

Hate is hate, it doesn't matter whether or not you use religion to justify that hate, it's still hate.

I read the google info.

What it means to me is that one can't use absence of proof as proof of a converse. If any proof for the non existence of God exists. I'd like to see it.
Till then, I'lI'll not be so credulous as to claim it proof of my exegesis.

Neo...do yourself a favor.

Acknowledge you were wrong when you asserted that it was illogical to suppose a negative can be proven.

Fact is, a negative assertion can be proven the same way a positive assertion can be.

It won't hurt to acknowledge you were wrong...and the Earth will not stop spinning on its axis. (You can prove that negative by making the acknowledgement...and seeing what happens.)

Really, Frank
OK
I can't prove that I can't prove a negative
A negative can be proven by:
Reducing to absurdity, or
Introducing acceptable verifying evidence - works when what is acceptable is agreed on.

Where has either occured in arguments of theology?

So the contents of your dresser are absurd