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What good does religion offer the world today?

 
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 07:04 am
@izzythepush,
Newton was also the most analytic minded and scientific person of his day...

This only goes to show that a little science can go a long way...

This also goes to show the dark ages effect religion had on society for centuries.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 07:36 am
"Don't overlook the enthusiastic support of some members of the Buddhist clergy. Read "Zen at War" by Daizen Victoria. The cover photo are zen monks, in robes, marching with rifles. Here is a clip from the jacket blurb, courtesy of Amazon.

Zen at War offers a penetrating look at the close relationship that existed between Zen Buddhism and Japanese militarism prior to World War II. Using the actual words of leading Japanese Zen masters and scholars, the author shows that Zen served as a powerful spiritual and ideological foundation for the fanatic and suicidal spirit displayed by the imperial Japanese military. At the same time, the author tells the dramatic and tragic stories of the handful of Buddhist organizations and individuals that dared to oppose Japan's march to war. He follows this history up to the recent apologies of several Zen sects for their support of the war, and the reemergence of what he calls corporate Zen in postwar Japan."

posted by George Sawyer

Wiki Excerpt:
During World War II, the government forced every subject to practice State Shinto and admit that the Emperor was divine. Those who opposed the Imperial cult, including Oomoto and Soka Gakkai, were persecuted.

Religion in Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Japan
0 Replies
 
najmelliw
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 08:04 am
@Geoff Goldblum,
True, I phrased that poorly. Let me make amends by adding that in Western society, most people commonly associate these holidays with the Christian faith, if they associate it with anything at all.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 10:43 am
@TheCobbler,
Whenever your flawed, simplistic logic is pointed out you go on the defensive. You always make it personal and refuse to admit to being wrong. You just end up looking stupid

Quote:
Would you say the war in the Middle East is secular? I rest my case.


Case in point.

What's going on in the ME is all about oil and power. Religion is a handy little way of motivating people and bringing them into your own power bloc.

Your problem is that you've traded in one set of monochrome beliefs for another. And because you can't see how complicated the World is you don't just end up with egg on your face, but the whole omelette.

Take the Catholic church, they've given us paedophile priests, attacked women's reproductive rights and legitimised anti LGBT bigotry. Yet they've also given us priests who've stood up for human rights and the oppressed against totalitarian regimes.

Things are no way near as straight forward as you want to paint them, and it's clear why that is. Your own tambourine bashing Evangelical Christianity took a knock when you realised you were gay. Instead of looking for a more socially liberal church you flipped. You're just like Derren Brown in that respect, he was a happy clappy too.

I don't want to continue discussing this with you because it's bloody depressing, there's none so blind as those that will not see, and you won't see because you've clearly got issues.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 10:58 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

Newton was also the most analytic minded and scientific person of his day...



More monochrome thinking. What about Robert Hooke? He was a man Newton did his level best to discredit, and their rivalry was the stuff off legend.

Quote:
Hooke studied at Wadham College, Oxford during the Protectorate where he became one of a tightly knit group of ardent Royalists led by John Wilkins. Here he was employed as an assistant to Thomas Willis and to Robert Boyle, for whom he built the vacuum pumps used in Boyle's gas law experiments. He built some of the earliest Gregorian telescopes and observed the rotations of Mars and Jupiter. In 1665 he inspired the use of microscopes for scientific exploration with his book, Micrographia. Based on his microscopic observations of fossils, Hooke was an early proponent of biological evolution. He investigated the phenomenon of refraction, deducing the wave theory of light, and was the first to suggest that matter expands when heated and that air is made of small particles separated by relatively large distances. He performed pioneering work in the field of surveying and map-making and was involved in the work that led to the first modern plan-form map, though his plan for London on a grid system was rejected in favour of rebuilding along the existing routes. He also came near to an experimental proof that gravity follows an inverse square law, and hypothesised that such a relation governs the motions of the planets, an idea which was independently developed by Isaac Newton. Much of Hooke's scientific work was conducted in his capacity as curator of experiments of the Royal Society, a post he held from 1662, or as part of the household of Robert Boyle.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hooke

Or Edmond Halley, the bloke the comet is named after?

Quote:
In 1676, Halley visited the south Atlantic island of Saint Helena and set up an observatory with a large sextant with telescopic sights to catalogue the stars of the southern hemisphere. While there he observed a transit of Mercury, and realised that a similar transit of Venus could be used to determine the absolute size of the Solar System. He returned to England in May 1678. In the following year he went to Danzig (Gdańsk) on behalf of the Royal Society to help resolve a dispute. Because astronomer Johannes Hevelius did not use a telescope, his observations had been questioned by Robert Hooke. Halley stayed with Hevelius and he observed and verified the quality of Hevelius' observations. In 1679, Halley published the results from his observations on St. Helena as Catalogus Stellarum Australium which included details of 341 southern stars. These additions to contemporary star maps earned him comparison with Tycho Brahe: e.g. "the southern Tycho" as described by Flamsteed. Halley was awarded his M.A. degree at Oxford and elected as a Fellow of the Royal Society at the age of 22. In September 1682 he carried out a series of observations of what became known as Halley's Comet, though his name became associated with it because of his work on its orbit and predicting its return in 1758 (which he did not live to see).



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_Halley<br />

You never let your complete ignorance of a subject get in the way of being opinionated. Your pronouncements are not based on observation and judgement but on blind prejudice. You have become that which you despise, the exact mirror image of a religious fundamentalist.
camlok
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 12:48 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
More monochrome thinking. What about Robert Hooke? He was a man Newton did his level best to discredit, and their rivalry was the stuff off legend.


Not necessarily monochrome thinking [you seem to like this new buzz phrase, izzy] but you didn't come close to addressing what Cobbler wrote.

But your scholarship was saved what with your two Wiki pulls.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 10:02 am
@izzythepush,
Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles hold commitment ceremony
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/28/pennsylvania-church-ceremony-guns/383815002/

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/54984c7d380a37cf56702a0588dc418389715709/c=85-0-2745-2000&r=x408&c=540x405/local/-/media/2018/02/28/USATODAY/USATODAY/636554495325027441-GTY-925473724-98026555.JPG

"Oil and gas" is strawman talk for more egg on your face...

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e5f1483bfb6caf36b7a4f02b126550180c33af42/c=527-0-2997-1857&r=x408&c=540x405/local/-/media/2018/02/28/USATODAY/USATODAY/636554496946033832-GTY-925457552-98025383.JPG

Why involve religion if it is only about oil and gas?

Besides there is so much free solar and wind power on the earth, an infinite amount while oil and gas are not only finite but will destroy the planet if an alternative is not utilized.

Also, while we struggle, as you claim, for merely oil and gas in the Middle East, China has cornered the market in cheap and superior solar panels.

If it was only about energy prowess (as you claim) we would be beating them in the solar panel market.

It is about racism, religion and genocide... Oil and gas are simply a distraction so deluded people like you can point the blame elsewhere.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 11:27 am
@TheCobbler,
There are extremisms in most religions.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 11:44 am
@TheCobbler,
Those people are insane. Over here they'd all be locked up. it's not just religious idiots who cling to assault rifles in America. It's your insane gun laws that are the problem. I live in a country where children's lives are worth more than some idiot's pathetic need to have a gun.

We changed our gun laws, why won't you?

I'm not saying the opposite of what you're saying. I'm not saying religion good science bad because that's every bit as absurd and monochrome as your religion bad science good. I'm saying it's a lot more nuanced than that.

Here's a picture of the Rev Richard Coles with a sausage dog. A thoroughly decent bloke. You won't find any guns in his church.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_small/public/thumbnails/image/2014/10/13/17/richard_coles_dog.jpg
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 11:50 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

If it was only about energy prowess (as you claim) we would be beating them in the solar panel market.


I never claimed that. The fact that you have to twist my words to make a point shows how hollow your argument is.


It's about the money made by big gas, big oil et al, and the power that money gives individuals and corporations to influence government.

For all the steps forward made by renewables a solar powered jet fighter is a long way off.
camlok
 
  1  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 11:53 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
There are extremisms in most religions.


The worst has been the "christian" religion, cicerone, especially as it is practiced in the USA. Look at all the "churches" that have, at the least, sat silent while the USA murdered tens of millions.

The US just lost one of its war criminal ministers, the evil Billy Graham, also an anti-Semite.

Quote:
When Billy Graham Urged Nixon to Kill a Million People
by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR - ALEXANDER COCKBURN

There’s a piquant contrast in the press coverage across the decades of Billy Graham’s various private dealings with Richard Nixon, as displayed on the tapes gradually released from the National Archive or disclosed from Nixon’s papers. We’ll come shortly to the flap over Graham and Nixon’s closet palaverings about the Jews, but first let’s visit another interaction between the great evangelist and his commander-in-chief.

Back in April, 1989, a Graham memo to Nixon was made public. It took the form of a secret letter from Graham, dated April 15, 1969, drafted after Graham met in Bangkok with missionaries from Vietnam. These men of God said that if the peace talks in Paris were to fail, Nixon should step up the war and bomb the dikes. Such an act, Graham wrote excitedly, “could overnight destroy the economy of North Vietnam”.

Graham lent his imprimatur to this recommendation. Thus the preacher was advocating a policy to the US Commander in Chief that on Nixon’s own estimate would have killed a million people. The German high commissioner in occupied Holland, Seyss-Inquart, was sentenced to death at Nuremberg for breaching dikes in Holland in World War Two. (His execution did not deter the USAF from destroying the Toksan dam in North Korea, in 1953, thus deliberately wrecking the system that irrigated 75 per cent of North Korea’s rice farms.)

https://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/01/when-billy-graham-urged-nixon-to-kill-a-million-people/




0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 01:09 pm
@TheCobbler,
Have you seen what he(Hitchens) said about Islam? It is much worse. Why don't you post that?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 01:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
And some religions are extreme. Islam is one of those.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  1  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 02:18 pm
@coldjoint,
Do you mean the drunken sot, Hitchens, the guy who traded his integrity/sold his drunken soul to be slotted into right wing USA.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 02:46 pm
@camlok,
I sure do. You have proven drunken sots actually know things you don't.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 04:00 pm
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28577793_1580376985392532_8697437376239225108_n.jpg?oh=a690ce708a31c25e4f2a3a165304d0d8&oe=5B05C627
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 04:07 pm
@camlok,
Hitchens was right 90% of the time and the other 10% is because he was only self-admittedly, human.

I find no problem with his assessment of Islam because he demonstrated on many occasions he hated all religions equally.

Was Hitchens racist or was he against the status quo? Of that, I reserve my judgment.

Was he right wing? Hell no, I certainly would not go that far. He was a free thinker. He did not care for Hillary or Obama but, I don't think he ever liked any US politician...
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 04:10 pm
@TheCobbler,
Anything on Allah? Give you a hint, he only loves Muslims.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 04:17 pm
@TheCobbler,
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 04:18 pm
@izzythepush,
I am not as monochrome as you suggest either but I put a lot more faith in science that I do in religion. I find religion to be a joke for the most part.

As for fighter jets...

Our most powerful fighter jets or rather "spacecraft" today are not fuel based but they are nuclear based.. The very energy that powers the sun.

Nuclear energy can be a clean form of energy but once again the dirty energy conservatives choose to employ the worst forms of nuclear energy to profit from.
 

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