Would the World be Better off Without Religion?

No sir.

That's Dyson, not Christians.

That's actually why I came here. On line is the only place I've found where you can have much discussion about God. In real life I don't encounter many people willing to express their belief or dis-belief and I'm not the type to force anyone into a discussion. A church is about the last place you can expect to discuss the subject. Even having a curiosity about whether established doctrine might be wrong is looked at with suspicion. That seems to be true with believers on-line as well.

But even here on-line it's hard to get beyond the question of whether God exists or not. The question I wanted to address in my first thread was 'If there is a God, what is he like?' No one wanted to go there. When I pitched a few thoughts of my own, only the atheists were willing to engage even a little.

So challenge away. That's why I'm here.

Maybe something a little less hypothetical and speculative would get more traction. I tend towards things like, 'What evidence is there that a creator being even exists?' or 'How is it rational to believe in a creator being when nobody has been able to present substantial, unequivocal, fallacy-free evidence in support of the hypothesis?'

I have enjoyed our discussion on that topic but we've pretty much done that. Frank's position is accurate. I can't give you proof that God did it and you can't prove abiogenesis.

Yet.

Ditto! :-)

The following is just my opinion and doesn’t necessarily reflect the opinion of others(Christians).

When I worked in the flower shop, from time to time, a muslim would come into the shop with his wife who was covered from head to toe with a burka. He always talked to my boss trying to convince him how wonderful Islam was, telling him what a peaceful religion Islam is. I thought this guy was in denial. Ever since I could recall there was always ongoing violence in the middle east. It seemed to me the muslims were always shooting back and forth at each other trying to kill each other off. Unfortunately that violence seems to be spreading now to other parts of the world.

The bible says God is love. I don’t know what muslims believe, but Christians believe that no one except God is perfect. Being imperfect, we can never measure up to the perfection expected of us by the commandments in the bible. Therefore Christians believe we all need forgiveness for our imperfections/sins. Just as importantly how can any of us, being imperfect, ever stand in judgment of others for being sinners?

The bible tells the story of Jesus and the adulteress. Many of the jewish religious leaders sought to discredit Jesus. They found a woman who was committing adultery. She couldn’t deny it. They caught her in the very act. Adultery was a sin. The law said that the punishment for adultery was stoning to death. They took her before Jesus and asked him what they should do with her. They set this trap knowing that if he said to stone her then that would be a complete contradiction of all the things he had been saying about loving the sinner and forgiving those who sinned. Yet if he said let her go free then that would be a direct violation of the law and how could he profess to be a man of God if he did not agree to obey the law? They were sure that they had Jesus right where they wanted him. Jesus was saddened by the hardness of their hearts. When they asked Jesus what they should do with the adulteress Jesus told them, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” These men knew they were not perfect and therefore were sinners like everyone else. If they threw a stone at her because she was a sinner then weren’t they in essence saying that sinners deserved to be stoned to death and being sinners weren’t they also passing judgment on themselves? The men disappeared and left the woman alone.

Law can be good. It can help to prevent chaos and set up an orderly society under which people can flourish. It can also be taken too far. Muslims have law. They commit atrocities in the name of establishing and carrying out that law in the name of Allah. Violence and war are something that it seems we will always have as long as there are disagreements, but violence and war can become something else when it is done to enforce God’s law. That can make God appear to be a fierce and demanding task master. It seems some muslims feel they can justifiably kill a young French man sitting outside a café in Paris, or kill an eight year old boy watching a race in Boston, or end the life of a father going home to see his family by turning an airplane into a fireball when they crash it into a building. Why? Because they say they are ridding the world of infidels. Infidels, it seems, are anyone who don’t adhere to muslim doctrine, therefore in the eyes of muslims they are imperfect. Yet are these muslims any better than those infidels they war against and judge as unworthy? Can anyone ever be good enough? If all you have is the law and everyone is imperfect thereby falling short of living up to the law, who can stand? Who can escape from those that have made it their mission to enforce the law. How can there be any peace? There can be no peace. Just look at the horrors muslims have inflicted on others as well as their own in the name of Allah and Islamic law.

Christians know that because we are not perfect we are unrighteous under God’s law and commandments. We’re not God. We can never be good enough. Some people in order to attain righteousness for themselves turn to self-righteousness. They try to prove that they are righteous under the law by their own works and they become prideful believing themselves to be better than others and more deserving. When they do this they risk becoming holier than thou, giving themselves the right to judge others as unrighteous and deserving of punishment or correction. Only God is perfect. We can never be that good or righteous in and of ourselves. Jesus Christ died for our sins. Because he was perfect (which he was able to achieve being the son of God and not of imperfect man) he did not deserve to die. By his death he paid the price for our imperfections/sins so that we can be righteous in the sight of God and have everlasting life. Through him and his sacrifice we have forgiveness. Yet if a person chooses to hold fast to the law and reject God’s gift of salvation and forgiveness they may find themselves being judged by the choice they made.

Christians believe God gave us the law/commandments to show us how he intended for us to live. The old covenant gave us the law, but we were convicted of the law because we were imperfect and unable to keep the commandments perfectly. We were under the penalty of death for our imperfections/sins. Yet we have forgiveness for our sins through Jesus Christ. God gave us Jesus who was perfect and who would take the punishment for our sin. When we accept Jesus and follow him as our savior we find forgiveness and peace with God.

The bible says hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covers all sin. God finds favor in us when we see other sinners like ourselves, in need of kindness, mercy and forgiveness and we forgive them instead of holding onto anger, grudges and self-righteousness. It is a step toward peace. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God. Sometimes it seems people have become so divided from God, because their sin is so great, that they, or other people, believe God could never forgive them. Even though in our puny minds we can’t believe God would ever forgive such great sin we should never minimalize and underestimate God’s love and mercy towards us.

The new covenant leaves us with two basic commandments which simply command us to love. The first commandment is that we love God above all else. God states in the bible that if we love him we will follow his commandments. Keeping the commandments shows that we trust God. The commandments will give us the direction in which God intends for us to go. Jesus too is our example of how God wants us to act, he was human like us. Jesus was God’s spirit living in human flesh that through knowing Jesus we might know God.

The second commandment the bible says is like unto the first, that we love our neighbors as ourselves. We are to treat others with kindness and mercy as we ourselves would hope to be treated if the situation were reversed. We have the law and we are to obey the law yet we are to temper the law with love and forgiveness because none of us is perfect.

God bless you.
The world is changed by your example, not by your opinion. Paulo Quelho

I think that anyone would be hard-pressed to come up with a better way to separate people than through the invention of religions. How can you not have some contempt for those who think you’re full of **** for believing in your particular savior?

The problem is that, once someone says or does something out of the ordinary that strikes others as profoundly different or enlightening, they attempt to crystallize the event, the words, and the person who said the words or did the deed. And then they build shrines and churches as monuments to their beliefs concerning the person, their words and event. And then ya got the us-and-them thing.

For instance, someone says, "Mary is the mother of Jesus, and should be the focus of our worship."

Someone else says, "No, Jesus is the son of God, and should be the focus of worship."

Still another says, "You're both wrong. Buddha is where it's at." And then along comes others who say that their holy text proves that God favors them more than he favors the others.

And even among those who believe in the same holy text and the same savior, one says, “I don’t think Paul--or Jesus--meant what you say he meant.”

And the other guy says, “Yeah, well I was thinking the same thing about your interpretation.”

So the first guy says, “Well, there’s nothing stopping you from going over there and building your own monument to what you think he meant”

And the second guy says, “I think I will.”

And the first guy says, “I hope you do.”

And the second guy says, “I’ll pray that one day you come to see the light.”

And the first guy says, “Yeah, and I’ll do the same for you.”

All well and good, but it could be pointed out that Christians have a long history of violence too. From the crusades to modern day murders at abortion clinics.

Not to mention Jesus saying that if you hate without cause, you are guilty of murder.

For a fact, religion has been at the heart of most of the conflicts that have taken place. Happily the Bible foretells of a time when false religion will be completely gone. And no longer will the human family suffer from it. I read an interesting article that talks about this future event.
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201511/

Which religion "has been at the heart of most of the conflicts that have taken place.?"

Which "Christians have a long history of violence too"?

Breaking "news."



http://nationalreport.net/atheist-extremists-open-fire-at-crowd-in-ny-12315/

Look up "Crusades".

The Crusades were only self defense against Islamic aggression.

Tell me.

What is religion?

Why is it called religion?

If you take away every single religion but one, is it still religion? Or is it just simply a way of life?

What is the one religion that warns of false teachings of other religions?

What religion fulfilled 2,000 prophecies?

What religion truly prepares you for the future?

What religion gives dreams and visions?

What religion will you turn to for improvement in living?

Just because somebody says they're a Christian doesn't mean they ARE one!
For example there are propaganda pics of Hitler coming out of a church, and every German soldier wore a belt buckle stamped with the words "Gott Mitt Uns" (God with us) as they ravaged their way across Europe.

Which is exactly the same thing Islam claims about protecting itself from other religions. Muhammed attacking Mecca, etc...

Which is something I've said several times.

So what do you say makes a 'real' Christian?