Would the World be Better off Without Religion?

@argome321,

I do agree with you in that religion has for the most part been at the heart of many of the troubles facing mankind today. And interestingly the Bible foretold that this would be the case. Note what it says at 2 Timothy 4:3 & 4

''3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesomea teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.''

This is one of the main reasons why religion has not benefited mankind. Many have chosen to reject what the Bible really teaches in favor of either a personal viewpoint, interpretation or custom that has no foundation in the Bible. As a result we have the caos and confusion that exists today.

1 Reply

@anthony1312002,

anthony1312002 wrote:

I do agree with you in that religion has for the most part been at the heart of many of the troubles facing mankind today. And interestingly the Bible foretold that this would be the case. Note what it says at 2 Timothy 4:3 & 4

''3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesomea teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.''

This is one of the main reasons why religion has not benefited mankind. Many have chosen to reject what the Bible really teaches in favor of either a personal viewpoint, interpretation or custom that has no foundation in the Bible. As a result we have the caos and confusion that exists today.

This is a typical attempt by every religion or cult to prevent people from listening to critical points of view. I am not surprised that it says this because it knows it is full of **** and is worried that people will stray. If a belief system is actually valid it wouldn't need to make threats or suggest that you shouldn't take up other points of view.

Here is the thing, if it is a the truth, it doesn't need to worry about outsider influences. The truth would automatically attract the seeker without any need to coheres or threaten. It is obvious that the religion is nonsense and needs these attempts of threats to prevent it's followers from discovering the actual truth.

It's cult 101 tactics.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

This is a typical attempt by every religion or cult to prevent people from listening to critical points of view. I am not surprised that it says this because it knows it is full of **** and is worried that people will stray. If a belief system is actually valid it wouldn't need to make threats or suggest that you shouldn't take up other points of view.

Here is the thing, if it is a the truth, it doesn't need to worry about outsider influences. The truth would automatically attract the seeker without any need to coheres or threaten. It is obvious that the religion is nonsense and needs these attempts of threats to prevent it's followers from discovering the actual truth.

It's cult 101 tactics.

You missed one essential point

anthony1312002 wrote:

Many have chosen to reject what the Bible really teaches . . .

That includes the many who claim to represent God. The fact is that the world population is now largely ignorant of the Bible and what it teaches.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Krumple wrote:
This is a typical attempt by every religion or cult to prevent people from listening to critical points of view. I am not surprised that it says this because it knows it is full of **** and is worried that people will stray. If a belief system is actually valid it wouldn't need to make threats or suggest that you shouldn't take up other points of view.

Here is the thing, if it is a the truth, it doesn't need to worry about outsider influences. The truth would automatically attract the seeker without any need to coheres or threaten. It is obvious that the religion is nonsense and needs these attempts of threats to prevent it's followers from discovering the actual truth.

It's cult 101 tactics.
You missed one essential point
anthony1312002 wrote:
Many have chosen to reject what the Bible really teaches . . .
That includes the many who claim to represent God. The fact is that the world population is now largely ignorant of the Bible and what it teaches.

Here is the thing. If god really thought it was necessary for people to understand the bible, why not make it easier for people to comprehend rather than having to do a bunch of nonsense mental gymnastics to make sense out of it.

It is clear that the bible was not written nor inspired by any god. It was simply bronze age men guessing at the world and deciding how they want their god to behave and what to say.

Societal laws can be challenged.

But if you claim these laws were given by a supreme being that will torture and punish you for eternity, they can't be challenged.

It is clear that the bible is just attempts to solidify societal laws by a judge that can't be challenged.

2 Replies

@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

neologist wrote:

Krumple wrote:
But if you claim these laws were given by a supreme being that will torture and punish you for eternity. . .
This proves my my point about Bible ignorance. You have bought into the thoughts of others. You live in Western Washington, right? Drive over to the Tacoma Dome tomorrow AM and meet a few thousand folks who will respectfully direct your attention to the truth.

We don't bite.

3 Replies

@neologist,

Lemme ask, Neo.

Other than the JW's...are there any other religions that correctly teach about the Bible?

Is there any piece of JW teaching about the Bible that you think MAY be incorrect?

If either of these questions gets a "yes" from you...could you flesh the answer out a bit.

If both get a "no"...don't you think you ought to reconsider?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Other than the JW's...are there any other religions that correctly teach about the Bible?

Many religions get a good deal correct. Jesus died for our sins, etc. None that I know of correctly interpret how to obey Revelation 18:4 regarding Babylon the Great

Quote:

And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues

Also, none so diligently apply John 13:34-35

Quote:

I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”

Frank Apisa wrote:

Is there any piece of JW teaching about the Bible that you think MAY be incorrect?

We have revised out teachings often. We celebrated Christmas and revered the cross in times past. Additionally, there are things I have yet to understand and would have difficulty explaining. Parenthetically, I have yet to successfully explain to you my understanding of Genesis ch. 1-3.

But if you ask me how kangaroos got to Australia, my answer at this point would be "Duh"

My belief is based on the avalanche of anecdotal and circumstantial evidence that I do understand.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

This proves my my point about Bible ignorance. You have bought into the thoughts of others. You live in Western Washington, right? Drive over to the Tacoma Dome tomorrow AM and meet a few thousand folks who will respectfully direct your attention to the truth.

We don't bite.

I haven't bought anything, it was a conclusion I came to on my own after studying the bible and ancient cultures. You see similarities within cultures that grow larger than small groups. There is a problem with group cohesion. When a leader tries to put forth a rule, other tribe members can challenge it. This was a problem. But a clever leader decided to lie and claim their tribal god handed him the rules. This was clever because no one in the tribe can therefore challenge them. There is no one to challenge for the rule.

This type of behavior explains the story of the 10 commandments perfectly. An attempt to get people to behave a certain way. Reveals the fickleness of people. And attempts to claim that murder is justified when the laws of god are not upheld.

The reason the religion has survived for so long is due to fear. It isn't just one type of fear, it is fear on multiple levels. Fear of rejection from family members, fear of the bogyman god who will torture you for leaving the religion. Fear that society wont' accept you for leaving. Fear of how to conduct yourself as a rational reasonable person without religion.

0 Replies

@neologist,

Neo...you constantly and consistently avoid actually answering any questions put to you...and instead answer questions that might have been (but where not) put to you.

Would you be so kind as to look at the questions I asked...and actually answer them.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

You live in Western Washington, right? Drive over to the Tacoma Dome tomorrow AM and meet a few thousand folks who will respectfully direct your attention to the truth.

We don't bite.

Yeah well I could go to a KKK meeting too with thousands of folks. Doesn't mean that they have a legitimate argument for their gathering. Just because a thousand or more people believe in the same nonsense doesn't make it valid. Lots of people think astrology is a way to predict the future. Doesn't make it true.

People will believe a lot of nonsense without any supporting evidence. Their need to believe outweighs any reasonable justification.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Lemme ask, Neo.

Other than the JW's...are there any other religions that correctly teach about the Bible? Answered

Is there any piece of JW teaching about the Bible that you think MAY be incorrect? Answered

If either of these questions gets a "yes" from you...could you flesh the answer out a bit. Done

If both get a "no"...don't you think you ought to reconsider? No

1 Reply

@neologist,

The first question was NOT answered.

The second question was NOT answered.

The third question was answered...but only here.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Quote:

But if you claim these laws were given by a supreme being that will torture and punish you for eternity, they can't be challenged.

According to neo's religion, God doesn't and won't torture and punish anyone for eternity. At a certain time in the future he will resurrect everyone that has died and either let them live on a paradisiacal Earth, if they've done his bidding to his satisfaction, or put them back to death if they haven't.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Quote:
But if you claim these laws were given by a supreme being that will torture and punish you for eternity, they can't be challenged.

According to neo's religion, God doesn't and won't torture and punish anyone for eternity. At a certain time in the future he will resurrect everyone that has died and either let them live on a paradisiacal Earth, if they've done his bidding to his satisfaction, or put them back to death if they haven't.

I am aware of what he thinks. I'm from the pacific northwest and many of the Christians around here are more liberal hippy types who have done away with the fire and brimstone beliefs. Now it's just, you don't get the VIP invitation to the god's after party. Which I am fine with.

It still doesn't make any sense. If you are an all knowing god, then before you created everyone you would have already known how it was going to turn out. So there is a certain percentage that would never do what he expected so he solely created them with this result in mind. It doesn't make sense.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Well, to try to make sense of it, his religion teaches that God choses not to know what everyone will do. Being omnipotent in regard to his own volition, he turns off his omniscience in regard to humanity. He does this to indulge the Devil in a wager of sorts, to see who will do God's bidding and who will do the Devil's.

Apparently, God turned off is omniscience retroactively, since there is nothing indicating in neo's religion that God switched off his omniscience while he was creating humanity.

Hmm...

Neo, how do you all handle that dilema?

2 Replies

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Well, to try to make sense of it, his religion teaches that God choses not to know what everyone will do. Being omnipotent in regard to his own volition, he turns off his omniscience in regard to humanity. He does this to indulge the Devil in a wager of sorts, to see who will do God's bidding and who will do the Devil's.

Even if that is the case, you can't honestly think that there still wouldn't be a certain percentage that would still not follow the path he has wished them to. It doesn't matter if he is aware of the outcome or not, if he has any intelligence at all, he must know this fact. Therefore my argument stands, he would have created them for the sole purpose of them being damned.

InfraBlue wrote:

Apparently, God turned off is omniscience retroactively, since there is nothing indicating in neo's religion that God switched off his omniscience while he was creating humanity.

Hmm...

Neo, how do you all handle that dilema?

I find this a cop out though. How convenient that he just switches off his ability to know the result? This is so close to just assuming what ever you want at that point. God is all powerful except when he doesn't want to be. God is all compassion, except when he decides he doesn't want to be. God is mercy except when he decides he doesn't want to be. It gets silly.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I really don't see how this question is not answered:
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:

Other than the JW's...are there any other religions that correctly teach about the Bible?

I wrote:

Many religions get a good deal correct. Jesus died for our sins, etc. None that I know of correctly interpret how to obey Revelation 18:4 regarding Babylon the Great

We can get to the others when you explain what more you want on this one.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Well, to try to make sense of it, his religion teaches that God choses not to know what everyone will do. Being omnipotent in regard to his own volition, he turns off his omniscience in regard to humanity. He does this to indulge the Devil in a wager of sorts, to see who will do God's bidding and who will do the Devil's.

Even if that is the case, you can't honestly think that there still wouldn't be a certain percentage that would still not follow the path he has wished them to. It doesn't matter if he is aware of the outcome or not, if he has any intelligence at all, he must know this fact. Therefore my argument stands, he would have created them for the sole purpose of them being damned.

InfraBlue wrote:

Apparently, God turned off is omniscience retroactively, since there is nothing indicating in neo's religion that God switched off his omniscience while he was creating humanity.

Hmm...

Neo, how do you all handle that dilema?

I find this a cop out though. How convenient that he just switches off his ability to know the result? This is so close to just assuming what ever you want at that point. God is all powerful except when he doesn't want to be. God is all compassion, except when he decides he doesn't want to be. God is mercy except when he decides he doesn't want to be. It gets silly.

Well, as far compassion and mercy go, he's allowed the Devil to bedevil us as a part of that wager, to see who will endure and still do God's bidding.

Yeah, it's hard to believe people go for this kind of stuff.

0 Replies

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Well, to try to make sense of it, his religion teaches that God choses not to know what everyone will do. Being omnipotent in regard to his own volition, he turns off his omniscience in regard to humanity. He does this to indulge the Devil in a wager of sorts, to see who will do God's bidding and who will do the Devil's.

'Wager' is your word. Satan has been under a death sentence from the beginning (Genesis 3:15). The only stakes in the 'game' are the lives of Adam's descendants.

InfraBlue wrote:

Apparently, God turned off is omniscience retroactively, since there is nothing indicating in neo's religion that God switched off his omniscience while he was creating humanity.

Hmm...

Neo, how do you all handle that dilema?

Every intelligent being, including angels, created by God has free will. So, the doctrines of predestination or reprobation taught by some are false. Whether it is correct to aver that God 'switches' or 'turns' omniscience on or off, I have no idea. Perhaps the word 'omniscience' is not the correct word.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I really don't see how this question is not answered:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:
Other than the JW's...are there any other religions that correctly teach about the Bible?
I wrote:
Many religions get a good deal correct. Jesus died for our sins, etc. None that I know of correctly interpret how to obey Revelation 18:4 regarding Babylon the Great
We can get to the others when you explain what more you want on this one.

If you are actually answering, "No...there is not"...why not say it that way?

You seem to be inferring that, Neo...I'm wondering why you did not simply say it...even if you had to offer some explanatory sub-text.

Let's discuss this for a while if you do not "get" what I am saying...or if you disagree. We can move on to the other stuff after settling this.

1 Reply

Would the World be Better off Without Religion?

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