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Would the World be Better off Without Religion?

 
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 07:08 pm
@neologist,
I and others have explain it here in the forums more then a dozen times you also have the web at large youtube and what not to get why its incompatible with both. I wont do your homework for you.

There are a million solid reasons why I could refute an Abrahamic personal God aside the problem of free will. I have presented several ideas on why it doesn't make sense, some stronger (final set does not move or evolve or grow or diminish, much less when timeless) some more weaker (minds are for problem solvers not for completeness) but still all convincing arguments...

...the outcome for anyone willing to reason the problem openly and honestly is of course no shorter then devastating.
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 07:33 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I have done my homework.
This is directed not at you personally.
But I have dispatched a 'million' flimsy straw men and pathetic non sequiturs advanced by those attempting to hang on to their moral license at all costs.

Of course, nearly all those whom I have corrected are unaware of the correction.

Go figure Confused
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 08:16 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

On the contrary. If we are in God's image, it would be necessary for us to have free will. You may deny that you have free will. But our entire legal system would contradict you.

Why would it be necessary? Even the idea of God's free will is paradoxical. You're stitching together various contradictory ideas to rationalize your dogma.
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 09:27 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

neologist wrote:

On the contrary. If we are in God's image, it would be necessary for us to have free will. You may deny that you have free will. But our entire legal system would contradict you.

Why would it be necessary? Even the idea of God's free will is paradoxical. You're stitching together various contradictory ideas to rationalize your dogma.


How does god , of any concept , give free-will to Humanity ?
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 10:08 pm
@north,

The only way that Humanity can and will grow spirtualy , is to think better of its self .

Name me a religion that puts Humanity first , above this or that " god " .

Name me at least one
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 10:20 pm
@InfraBlue,
If we do not have free will, I will admit that God as I have known him, does not exist. If God does not have free will, the.name Jehovah would be meaningless. I assert and maintain as axiomatic that we do have free will. It is necessary for my belief in God. I realize it is not sufficient, however. There is a good discussion of free will here:
http://able2know.org/topic/65395-1
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 10:26 pm
Neuroscientists are chipping away at conventional notions of free will. The following is not even the most recent work done on it:

http://videolectures.net/eccs08_haynes_udofdithb/

And for those who don't like off-site materials: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v11/n5/abs/nn.2112.html

Quote:
Nature Neuroscience 11, 543 - 545 (2008)
Published online: 13 April 2008 | doi:10.1038/nn.2112

Unconscious determinants of free decisions in the human brain
Chun Siong Soon1,2, Marcel Brass1,3, Hans-Jochen Heinze4 & John-Dylan Haynes1,2

top of page
There has been a long controversy as to whether subjectively 'free' decisions are determined by brain activity ahead of time. We found that the outcome of a decision can be encoded in brain activity of prefrontal and parietal cortex up to 10 s before it enters awareness. This delay presumably reflects the operation of a network of high-level control areas that begin to prepare an upcoming decision long before it enters awareness.

Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences, Stephanstrasse 1A, 04103 Leipzig, Germany.
Charité – Universitätsmedizin Berlin, Bernstein Center for Computational Neuroscience, Haus 6, Philippstrasse 13, 10115 Berlin, Germany.
Department of Experimental Psychology and Ghent Institute for Functional and Metabolic Imaging, Ghent University, Henri Dunantlaan 2, 9000 Ghent, Belgium.
Department of Neurology II, Otto-von-Guericke University, Leipziger Strasse 44, 39120 Magdeburg, Germany.
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 10:35 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

If we do not have free will, I will admit that God as I have known him, does not exist. If God does not have free will, the.name Jehovah would be meaningless. I assert and maintain as axiomatic that we do have free will. It is necessary for my belief in God. I realize it is not sufficient, however. There is a good discussion of free will here:
http://able2know.org/topic/65395-1


hmm.....I think of a god as encompassing the whole of the Universe .

Hence ; this god is expoloring its understanding of things , from the micro to the macro , of things
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 10:38 pm
@FBM,
I know what's being done. I majored in psychology. There is a growing inclination on the part of some scientists, particularly social scientists, to view all human behavior in terms of cause and effect. Havng found some connections 'valid', they assume all valid.

Perhaps the understanding of Hobson's choice has eluded them.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 10:43 pm
@neologist,
I don't know of any who jump to the conclusion that all their conjectured connections are valid, only the ones demonstrated by experiment. Please give me an example. I haven't look into this in a while.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 10:54 pm
@FBM,
Poor wording of last sentence vis a vis 'all'
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 11:06 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Perhaps the understanding of Hobson's choice has eluded them.


I just ran across something said about Hitchens, such that when he was asked if he believed in free will, responded, "I have no choice." Wink
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2015 12:23 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

If we do not have free will, I will admit that God as I have known him, does not exist. If God does not have free will, the.name Jehovah would be meaningless. I assert and maintain as axiomatic that we do have free will. It is necessary for my belief in God. I realize it is not sufficient, however. There is a good discussion of free will here:
http://able2know.org/topic/65395-1

The name Jehovah has various meanings regardless of your assertion.

So, in your circular question begging you believe in God because you believe he has free will or you believe in God's free will therefore you believe in God?

Why is your belief in God necessary?
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2015 12:43 am
@panzade,
https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10941874_10153195509329728_5934943069884439945_n.jpg?oh=9137b2062ab801086bb95591aae138fa&oe=55F02E20
And yet this guy supports the Zionists'oppression of the Palestinian peoples on the grounds of religious mythologies passed off as history.
north
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2015 12:57 am
@InfraBlue,

The thing is , the world is better off without religion .

The problem is ... How many in the populous understands this ?
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2015 03:58 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Quote:
The idea that a young Catholic would aspire to the priesthood seems to be novel to you.

Not novel at all. Conditioning is a subject of particular interest to me, especially when it comes to the role of words in constructing personal concepts of reality acquired in social contexts.
If what you mean by "my true colors" is my intolerance of boring nuisances like you, then the way to avoid my brandishing of them is for you to think twice before subjecting us to your fatuous evangelism. But I realize too that you probably no longer have any choice in the matter. It is running you.



I think if anyone is allowing anything to run him, Fresco...

...it is the religion you have built for yourself running you.

But...continue to suggest that I am stupid, uninformed...and that what I write is fatuous. I guess it makes the life you are living more bearable. I know it provides me with lots of laughs.
Wink
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2015 04:03 am
@north,
north wrote:


The thing is , the world is better off without religion .


At one time I was very sure that was so. These days I am not so sure that things would be appreciable better without religion. Humans just seem to be a squabbling animal...and it is likely we would squabble and kill for other reasons if religion did not exist.

So your blank assertion that the world is better off without religion...may be wrong.



Quote:
The problem is ... How many in the populous understands this ?


Perhaps the problem is: Can YOU understand that you might be wrong?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2015 07:21 am
@FBM,
I've seen before, and I don't buy it. Anyone could beat that experiment. All you have to do is switch your choice at the last second.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2015 10:27 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

I've seen before, and I don't buy it. Anyone could beat that experiment. All you have to do is switch your choice at the last second.


You shine man...you shine high !!!
Vraiment super !...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2015 10:44 am
 

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