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Would the World be Better off Without Religion?

Forums: Religion, Spirituality And Religion, Philosophy, Lack Of Religion, Lack Of Belief
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Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 06:16 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
(References: Heidegger, Merleau-Ponty, Lakoff, Varela)


You should learn to think for yourself.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 06:17 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
With respect to your "counting" principal, note that Rorty (a proponent of my basic references) argues that we have been conditioned by the Greek emphasis on "a vision metaphor" of "subjects" observing (counting) "objects". Are you sufficiently sophisticated to understand that conditioning ?
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 06:22 am
@Setanta,
Would you like a copy of my forthcoming public paper subtitled Tractatus Biographico-Philosophicus. It explains how my selective references underscore and enhance my own thoughts ?
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 07:36 am
@fresco,
Are you aware that natural selection makes that argument backwards ? Are you sophisticated enough to re evaluate your position in the face of good reason or will you keep at the corner you got yourself into ? You see Fresco there is no fault in getting cornered...none of us can be faulted to try and follow a given hypothesis that later doesn't work. But one can be faulted for deliberately keeping where we stuck.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 07:42 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Read the references. You may find that your "good reason" argument dissipates.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 08:00 am
...on a side note I and most of us I am sure are very entertained with the invisible hand down voting any comment like there is no tomorrow around the thread...brave silent soul ! Maybe a chill pill can help ? Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 09:46 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
What evidence is there for a talking thinking personal God, eh ? Someone said so ?

I am a God to but just on Fridays...its a mystery you must unravel Wednesday night close to midnight. Bring your augmenting glass, pencil and a footnote book Sherlock...
Well, it's only Monday morning, but:
You are like a god always, actually. You have free will. You are restrained only by your physiological, mental, and moral limitations.

In that, we have the first iota of evidence.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 11:19 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

No Frank, I know that you know your limitations and that you are out of your depth. You have admitted as much, irrespective of the facile game you play which amounts to "if there is any depth, nobody knows about it".
Only an ignoramus, or self-valedictory ex-novice, would deny that most of the time we all operate in terms of "belief" (or assumed axioms). The trivial belief that the sun will rise tomorrow should be sufficient to anybody with half a brain to reconsider the stupid platitude "I don't do beliefs".




Your new-found need to be insulting, apparently motivated by the fact that you are having your doors blown off here, just makes you look as though you are comfortable in the gutter, Fresco.

You would be doing yourself a big favor if you would cut that stuff out.

I do not do "beliefs." I "expect" that the Earth will continue its rotation...and the appearance of the sun rising is also expected. I guess that I will wake tomorrow...but it is just a guess.

I do not disguise my suppositions, guesses, and expectations using the word "belief"...so I do not do "believing"...whether you are open minded enough to recognize and acknowledge that is so.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 11:22 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
You are restrained only by your physiological, mental, and moral limitations.



Well, there's the cops and the guy next door with a 12 guage...
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 11:45 am
@Frank Apisa,
Smile
Just think, you could have been called "Father" by older believers who would have hung on your every word, and you gave all that up ! Tough !
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 12:47 pm
@fresco,
The idea that a young Catholic would aspire to the priesthood seems to be novel to you, Fresco. And you seem to enjoy using it in the way you are using it.

Fine. I enjoy when you show your true colors. It makes statements about you that I am not able to make. I thank you for that.

You might know, though, that the thought of a religious vocation among young Catholics during the years I was growing up...was not all that strange.

Anyway...that desire you mentioned for people to "hang on my every word" is not part of MY make-up.

I suspect it is part of yours though.

Good luck with that. Wink
InfraBlue
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 01:20 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

In that, we have the first iota of evidence.

Upon which to base an assumption.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 01:27 pm
@InfraBlue,
Everything is "evidence."

"Of what" is quite another question.

And whether credible or not is another.

None of the "evidence" is unambiguous enough so that a meaningful guess can be made based on it.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 01:30 pm
https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10941874_10153195509329728_5934943069884439945_n.jpg?oh=9137b2062ab801086bb95591aae138fa&oe=55F02E20
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 01:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The idea that a young Catholic would aspire to the priesthood seems to be novel to you.

Not novel at all. Conditioning is a subject of particular interest to me, especially when it comes to the role of words in constructing personal concepts of reality acquired in social contexts.
If what you mean by "my true colors" is my intolerance of boring nuisances like you, then the way to avoid my brandishing of them is for you to think twice before subjecting us to your fatuous evangelism. But I realize too that you probably no longer have any choice in the matter. It is running you.
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 03:29 pm
@InfraBlue,
neologist wrote:
In that, we have the first iota of evidence.
InfraBlue wrote:
Upon which to base an assumption.
Of course.
Genesis 1:26 asserts that man was created in God's image. Were we without free will, that would be sufficient to disprove the text. Our having free will, then, is just one item of necessity.
InfraBlue
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 04:56 pm
@neologist,
Your reasoning is a non sequitur what with your quoting of Genesis' assertion that man was created in God's image and then inferring from that that we have free will and then inferring from that that this is a necessary item upon which to base your assumption.
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 05:28 pm
@InfraBlue,
On the contrary. If we are in God's image, it would be necessary for us to have free will. You may deny that you have free will. But our entire legal system would contradict you.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 06:15 pm
@neologist,
Yes and it will change soon as neuroscience unravels the myth of free will whatever that means...guilt is a dinosaur on the fringe of extinction...just a elaborate social tool that evolution deemed convenient to substantiate ethical behaviour and improve group coordination and efficiency at complex tasking.

...people of course will keep being restrained when they behave inappropriately but will be looked at as dysfunctional or ill instead of "guilty"...

...free will is incompatible both with causation and incompatible with chance or randomness...
That said the issue is automaticly dead. Its not just missing one leg, it has none to stand upon.

I rather not even start with talking "Gods"...the idea is so juvenile, so idiotic, its not worth the time.
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 06:33 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
You appear to be saying that disproving the concept of free will would essentially disprove the existence of the Abrahamic God.

Interesting opinion..

But you have yet to demonstrate your assertion that free will is incompatible with causation and chance. And I understand the role of mental illness and the Hobson's choice it provides to many.
 

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