Why have children?

1. Only the once for that weird bird incident on the highway.

2. I donate it all the time. Just nobody botheres to collect it. (was that too far?) Truth is, I'll probably get a vasectomy soon. I may have to lie to a doctor to get 'em to do it. I'm told most won't perform one on a guy who hasn't already got at least a few kids.

Agreed. Not everyone should have kids. I saw a preagnant woman yesterday, drunk and smoking away. Yikes. I sure hope to have 2-3 kids in a few years, and am looking forward to it tremendously. To each his/her own, though.

No that wasn't too far That is, not for me.

Let's assume for the moment that our children will experiencing some suffering in their life. After all, it is probable they will experience you passing on. However, they will also be receiving unconditional love.

I have two children, a boy and a girl. To me, they make my entire existance on this planet have a purpose. I truly am a whole person now.

Biologically, we need to perpetuate the species.
Socialogically, we need to pass our name down.
Economically, we need the tax write offs.
Politically, we need new voters.

I could keep going on, but I think I made my point. There is more to life then suffering. You just need to learn to focus on the positive parts instead of the negative.

If I had kids, they'd receive conditional love. As long as they worked 21 hours in the shop producing sweaters I'd love them.

And re: TLomon's points:

Biologically we don't ALL have to reproduce to perpetuate the species.
Socialogically dunno about you but there's 12,000 people in the USA alone with my last name.
Economically, the tax write offs are drowned in the costs of raising a child... Especially if it is one that doesn't put the full 21 hours in the shop.
Politically, we need a percentage of voters not a gross number. Voting would not fail to work (any more than it has) if the pop was only 150,000,000.

Yes, there is most certainly more to life than suffering. And I aim to partake in alot more of that more to life, which is one more reason I won't have kids.

To the people who can satisfy themselves with the role as parent: go you!

Me? I'm gonna continue the job my parents started and raise myself some more.

Damn cats, you give them one sweater, kaboom, trying to take over the world and deprive our children of a good youth (or am I being paranoid?) (...) Wait a minute: limbodog. Is this some kind of conspiracy in which both cats AND dogs are involved??

"you are just being paranoid" - non-existant Office of Strategic Influence

I don't want to have children myself but I don't choose so because bad things might happen to them.

I accept that good and bad will happen and that is an acceptable fact. I could not protect a child of mine from injuries, war, heart-break, and all those other negative forces that exist in the real world. I think they are all part of living, of being, of appreciating the better things when they also happen - love, sharing, laughter, accomplishing a goal, enlightenment in learning, mastering a task, excitement from a thrilling action, winning, etc., etc. How much sweeter these things are when compared to a more difficult time. Life is all about varying levels of highs and lows and I found nothing wrong with experiencing bad as well as good. I have had some dreadful experiences in my life and I consider myself (for the most part) a happy person. I would not wipe out those bad experiences since they are part and parcel of my make-up and who I am. In some cases I believe I am stronger because of them. Perhaps I am an optimist although I also consider myself a member of the "piss-and-moan-about-everything-club" - I even have a tee shirt that says so! :wink:

The Prophet

And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said,
"Speak to us of Children"
And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of lifes longing for itself.
And though they are with you,
yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
for they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you can not visit, not even in your dreams.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and HE bends you with his might that HIS arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archers hand be for gladness;
For even as he loves the arrow that flies,
So he loves also the bow that is stable."

~Kahil Gibran 1883-1931

I have that poem framed on our mantle.

I don't think you understand how much children mean to you until you have your own,

I was never one to go gooey over babies - I liked some children for their interesting personalities and not others who were unpleasant brats - nothings changed there

Your own children are special, you have this urge to protect them, the love grows as they do and I think you also understand your parents better. I loved having my children, they were constantly interesting, had decided characters of their own and yes, it is worrying what sort of world this is - but what is new? that has always been the case, there has never been a time in history without wars, plagues, natural disasters etc etc etc to worry about. As someone already said, life is for living and the good outweighs the bad.

because we're egomaniacs. and love-starved.

Just think about it from this point of view:

What if your parents had this believe and decided not to have you. You wouldn't be here today writing about this!

Life is not getting any better and is up to us to procreate and educate the next generation with the hope that they will make any changes for the best in the future - at least that's how I see it! :wink:

I always hated that bit. What if my parents decided not to have me?

What if they decided to have my non-existant younger brother who became the anti-christ and ended the world? Aren't we glad they thought better of him?

And? Really, from a purely self-interested point of view, I'm glad I'm here, but if I wasn't -- so what, to the rest of the world? By that line of thinking, we should all breed as much as is biolgoically possible, which is an odious thought.

I hope that, if the wife and I are going to raise critters, we will have the conscience to raise somebody else's unwanted brood rather than feel the need to make our own special critter. (Anyway, the kid would be too slow of foot to play ball...)

The bring children into this world is the one most important gift we can give to the world. You may believe you're bringing it into pain and suffering, but you need to have the pain and suffering to balance up the happiness, love and good. How can I NOT bring a child into this world, to feel the wonder, the fantastic, the exciting, the exhilirating, the adventures? It would defy all that I was made to do, I would be neglecting that choice of giving that happiness and hope to someone else. Sure there will be suffering and pain at some point, as there is for all of us, but it's life that I offer someone. I GIVE life, the most precious gift ever created, to laugh and cry, to hate and love, to find who you are and what you are, and by the time you're gone, you've given that gift again to someone else (hopefully).

It is an interesting question. My quick answer is, if you have to ask, then don't have them. Really though, all through my twenties I thought I didn't want kids... I always joked that I'd rather have a horse. Now I have two kids and one horse. The kids are lots more interesting, especially now that they are nearly adults. I am amazed at how much they've learned... how much left they have to learn. It is fascinating to see their personalities blossom.

It is true that every new life is fated to suffer... that's the glass half-empty. It is also true that that same new life has the opportunity to rise to unimagined grace... that's the glass half-full.

And as I read about the far-reaches of our family, leading (in print) just a few hundred years back in time, I think those Piffka-great-grandparents would be extraordinarly disappointed if it were my generation that decided to call their ancient line quits. As it happens, of five kids in my family -- only three had children. Numerically speaking, in my family we're barely holding our own... not raising the population, not lowering it either.

Mostly though, I realize how very little we know, individually and as humans in general. There are no true adults. There is no one who really knows what is going on, who knows what life is about, who can answer questions the way we expect own parents to do. Our lives, all our lives, are just too short. I'm glad I've been able to pass along some of my hard-earned knowledge to my children. I think by doing so I've added a tiny bit to the "general store" of information. I hope my kids choose to do the same. Maybe someday, one of us will grow up.

Scarletmarsden, you say that having children is a great gift to the world. I agree that this may be so, at least in the general sense of propagating the species (although I don't "the species" as any thoughts on that). But would you make this assertion to the mother of Hitler if you could?
Bearing children is both good and bad. Or neither.

This thread by tcis has finally convinced me that suicide is indeed a viable option. It's waayyy cheaper than having kids.