The Void and the Absolute Oneness of the Universe

By the way, the other day I was considering Frank's mantra, "Reality is what it is" and was struck by how it reminded me of the absolutism in the biblical account of God's response when asked His name: "I am that I am."

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@JLNobody,

Quote:

By the way, the other day I was considering Frank's mantra, "Reality is what it is" and was struck by how it reminded me of the absolutism...

As I'm sure you know, JL, Frank fully acknowledges that this is an empty tautology which says nothing of substance. As I see it, Frank uses it as merely a rhetorical device, to implicitly contrast what reality is with what it is not.

He seems rather skeptical that "reality" is even a legitimate topic of (for) discussion. It seems to me that one of his main implicit points is along the lines of: "Reality is what it is, not what(ever) you think, say, argue, or pretend it is.

In short, I don't think he intends to take any kind of "absolutist" stand about reality.

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@JLNobody,

Of course biblical !....or perhaps Doris Day ! ( the present tense of que sera, sera), ) Smile

As for zis Olivier, he failz to attend le champ d'honneur on ze empiricism thread ! I was there at dawn, mais ou etait le gogol qui m'accuse ?

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@layman,

Quote:

As I'm sure you know, JL, Frank fully acknowledges that this is an empty tautology

Layman ! You really are great at getting the wrong end of the stick !

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@fresco,

Le "gogol" n'a pas de temps à perdre avec un idiot bouché et prétentieux.

You've been avoiding my arguments forever, and now you throw your flacid gantlet in my general direction? LOL

Keep playing with that 'philosophy is fun' kit your parents got you for christmas. I'd rather play with the adults.

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Tautologies have a tendency to be that way, JL...absolute.

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@JLNobody,

As I said, tautologies have a tendency to be that way, JL...absolute.

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@layman,

Thank you, Layman.

In my last use of the term, I was merely, and rather facetiously, showing that "something" could be said about the ultimate REALITY...but what could be said amounts to damn near nothing.

Other than "whatever happens to be...is what IS" all the rest is purely guess.

I have no problem with guessing about it...it is an issue humans have discussed since recorded time. I doubt it will stop.

In a sense, it CAN be said I take an absolutist position...but only insofar as "I do not know what the REALITY is...but whatever it is, it IS.

JL and Fresco MAY BE RIGHT that REALITY is found in non-duality. But their insistence that IT IS THE REALITY...is as much a guess as that it is cheese gone bad.

The constant appeals to authority make me giggle, because there is, in my opinion, no greater insult to reason and logic than to suggest that something IS CORRECT because they guess the guesses of others to be correct.

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Oh....by the way...

...when Fresco starts the nonsense he just started, it almost certainly means he sees that he is being bested, but intends to play games rather than acknowledge his arguments are just rationalizations dressed up in pretty words.

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@Relinquish,

Your words connect in my 'heart', or being. It is not heady stuff as are many of your respondents' comments. I am wondering if you have done Landmark work? I recently wrote a Tanka poem about the is-is not- isness of trees, but not to hand right now. I have done The Forum and am continuing studies with
Landmark. They hold practical keys to a different level that decades of 'study' of Eastern religions etc have not given 'me'. Thank you. Kendall

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I want to thank Relinguish for a very insightful and stimulating thread. It is very bold in its efforts to express extremely subtle notions regarding the ineffable character of Reality. His language has been criticized for its lack of precision, but as I see it that was unavoidable given the nature of his subject matter. He was attempting to do what poets often attempt with their imprecisions.
Let me add one subjective (or private) insight that might offend some of the naive realists and positivists among us: I feel strongly that when we die we will become both nothing and everything. Moreover that is what we are now.

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@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

I want to thank Relinguish for a very insightful and stimulating thread. It is very bold in its efforts to express extremely subtle notions regarding the ineffable character of Reality. His language has been criticized for its lack of precision, but as I see it that was unavoidable given the nature of his subject matter. He was attempting to do what poets often attempt with their imprecisions.
Let me add one subjective (or private) insight that might offend some of the naive realists and positivists among us: I feel strongly that when we die we will become both nothing and everything. Moreover that is what we are now.

Interesting blind guess about what happens when we die, JL.

I cannot help but wonder why you offered as something you "strongly feel"...rather than offering it as something you blindly guess.

And to follow it up with an outright assertion that we are both "nothing and everything" right now...seems a bit dogmatic, don't you think?

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@Frank Apisa,

...because "guessing" is a ridiculous word to apply to an awareness and appreciation of transcendental holism. The complementarity of "everything" and"nothing" is self evident at that level as "thinghood" has been transcended.

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@fresco,

fresco wrote:

...because "guessing" is a ridiculous word to apply to an awareness and appreciation of transcendental holism. The complementarity of "everything" and"nothing" is self evident at that level as "thinghood" has been transcended.

Yeah...to you...and perhaps to JL.

For you, it is mostly because you want "guessing" to be "ridiculous"...because it conflicts with the dogma to which you subscribe.

Wake up, Fresco.

Join the world...such as it may be.

But...nice choice of words and phrasing. I'll bet there are people who are impressed by that stuff. As I've noted before, there are dumb people who think smart people talk that way.

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@Frank Apisa,

Of course as you were a one time aspiring priest one would expect you to be fixated on words like "dogma", "authority" and "religion".

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@fresco,

fresco wrote:

Of course as you were a one time aspiring priest one would expect you to be fixated on words like "dogma", "authority" and "religion".

...although it is somewhat a surprise that someone like you, Fresco, would become a slave to them.

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@Frank Apisa,

Both Freud and Nietzsche would have loved you ! Wink

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@fresco,

fresco wrote:

Both Freud and Nietzsche would have loved you !

Nothing strange about that. I'd have loved them in return.

I love you, Fresco. Hope you realize that. Wink

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@Frank Apisa,

This is where you age makes a point compared to my age...

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank, if I were to try to decide which of the two (becoming nothing or becoming everything) I would become upon death, THAT would have to be a blind guess--which of the two: i.e., eenie, meening, miney mo.....
The notion that I might become (and have always been) both was an intuition (right or wrong or both) not a guess.

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The Void and the Absolute Oneness of the Universe

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