30
   

Forgiveness ~ A Discussion

 
 
dlowan
 
  3  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 04:01 am
I absolutely agree that forgiveness is the thing to aim for....for ones own healing as much as anything.

However, I get concerned when people become prescriptive about it. For example, some therapists who work with people who have experienced significant abuse teach that one cannot recover until one forgives, leaving some clients feeling guilty and inadequate.

My view is that people can forgive when, or if, it feels right for them. Or not.

This was especially insidious when I was working with people very attached to some Christian sects. The pastors would sometimes do things like expect children and a non-offending parent to forgive an offender....and expect them to attend the same church services, or even remain in a relationship....because it is a Christian's duty to forgive.

roger
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 04:06 am
@dlowan,
He never lets us know who he's replying to.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 04:59 am
@dlowan,
When you hit reply on someone's post, the system here names them. Have a care will you? Don't try to sluff off sloppy, careless behavior on your part with a snotty reply to me.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 05:26 am
For those who are too clueless or too lazy to notice, if you don't want your reply addressed to a particular member, go to the top or the bottom of the page and click on "Reply to All," which obviates the problem of another member's name appearing in your reply.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 05:29 am
Forgiveness can be highly overrated. In the main, I forgive even people I don't really like. But some individuals don't deserve to be forgiven. I can put their trespasses out of mind and get on with my life. But those individuals are not allowed back in, no matter what.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 05:33 am
Personally, i don't do forgiveness very well. I ignore a lot of slighting or outright demeaning behavior . . . up to a point. At the point at which i feel that someone's behavior has become insufferable, i have no interest in any further contact with them at all, and do quite well without it.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  5  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 07:40 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
There is an old saying, "the best revenge is to live a good life". Is this forgiveness?

No, it's revenge.
The hardest part, for me, of forgiveness is removing the personalness of whatever harm was done to me. I have to see the acts or words as something belonging, not to me, but to the perpetrator. Once that is done, even if they have no knowledge of the removal, their poison is removed from me.
That's forgiveness.

That's why Dlowen's example of children being forced to forgive and forget is so insidious. They don't have the ability to see wrongful acts as anything but belong to them.

Joe(a work in progress)Nation
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 07:43 am
Edgar and Setanta: Yes, there is something to be said for removing, permanently, persons who are acidic to one's being. I'm sure there's a better way to put that. Some people are beyond redemption.

Joe(let them sail away)Nation
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 07:50 am
I hold a grudge. I stew--sometimes for decades. I am incapable of letting things go. I can try being reasonable, sensible, logical. My emotions rule.

edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 08:38 am
@Roberta,
That makes for better kvetching.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 08:40 am
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
The hardest part, for me, of forgiveness is removing the personalness of whatever harm was done to me. I have to see the acts or words as something belonging, not to me, but to the perpetrator. Once that is done, even if they have no knowledge of the removal, their poison is removed from me.
That's forgiveness.


I think that I understand what you mean by "removing the personalness". I am interested in what happens to your relationship with the perpetrator after you have completed the process of forgiveness.

Sometimes after I forgive someone, we pick up where we left of and continue the relationship we had before the incident that required forgiveness ever took place. At other times, after I forgive someone, I move on and never want to see them again.

These two outcomes are very different to me. It is almost as if the word "forgiveness" shouldn't be used for these two very different processes.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 08:52 am
@maxdancona,
Can you think of a word that fits each situation?
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 08:54 am
@maxdancona,
I think one is forgiveness and the other is closure.

Joe(both good)Nation
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 08:54 am
@cicerone imposter,
Where I continue the same relationship I had with someone before they wronged me... that feels like true "forgiveness". Of course I don't always want to do that.

When I move on and never want to see a person again, it feels like a resolution, and at times it is the healthy thing to do. But, I don't use the word forgiveness in this case. I say "I moved on".

Edit: I just saw Joe's post. I like the word "closure" (although it is hard to even call it that when you have a child together).

0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 08:55 am
@Roberta,
I can't do that anymore, Roberta.

It eats me up, rather than healing.

Joe(it creates more regrets for me)Nation
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 09:23 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Forgiveness can be highly overrated. In the main, I forgive even people I don't really like. But some individuals don't deserve to be forgiven. I can put their trespasses out of mind and get on with my life. But those individuals are not allowed back in, no matter what.


Yeah that is kinda my situation I was referring to -- I guess it is difficult to say whether it is forgiveness or not. I don't go after vengence, I just walk away and put as you say trepasses out of my mind - it doesn't mean I ever want the person in my life. As I said in my words -- I don't think I want anything to do with you further. And that means not to let their trepasses bother me.

Is that forgiveness? I guess I kinda of looked at it that way. The reason I have nothing to do with them is even more so the fact that if they think it is ok to do what they did, then we really do not value the same things so reason to have them a part of my life.

Life is too short to have certain people part of your life who just muddying it up.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  3  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 09:39 am
There is a difference between forgiving and forgetting. I can forgive someone in the sense that I wish them no ill and have no desire for vengeance. But still, sometimes it is impossible to forget the harm they have d one me.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 10:00 am
From edgarblythe's Daily Quotes thread:

Quote:
“Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.”
― Mark Twain
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2015 04:32 pm
So, the real question is how do you forgive the murderer of a friend?

I knew both men.
The victim was my teacher, the shooter I had had several interactions with. some better than others.
Both men had their value.

Joe(so now what?)Nation
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2015 04:52 pm
I understand the emotional attachment. But what transpired was between those two. Perhaps forgiveness is not required here. Nor grudge nor anger.
 

Related Topics

What does forgiveness really mean? - Question by Rickoshay75
At what price forgiveness? - Question by boomerang
Forgiveness - Discussion by dagmaraka
Forgiveness - A Personal Essay, by Kim Phuc - Discussion by edgarblythe
Second-Chance for Isis Bride - Discussion by livinglava
The Forgiveness Dance - Discussion by snood
Relationship worth saving? - Question by Yaboii
How to Forgive Myself? - Question by blackbear
The 'Forgiveness Pageant' Phenomenon - Discussion by snood
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 09/25/2021 at 07:11:41