Okay...
The universe as we know it, us included, is the result of a contaminated or flawed chemistry experiment thrown out by an unimaginable cosmic being or group of beings. We evolved in that/those beings "septic tank". They don't even know we exist. Our end will come when they have the tank pumped and we are processed into cosmic mill-organite (processed sewage) and used to fertilize their gardens. :wink:
Sam
What if likeness was simply our ability to think about ourselves and make free decisions. I take Genisis to be alegorical (as I do much of the Old Testament) about how humans came to have the abilty to make decisions that are free and then how our relationship with God came to deal with afterworld punishments for this world behavior.
I am with JL with his concept of awareness and things meaning likeness - or atleast the possibility that it could mean that.
Hick (the philosopher) talks about human existence being a progression that ends with humans abilty to enter into a personal relationship with a higher power. So our evolution was necessary to reach this stage. The Abramic covenant would be the first (western) revelation to seek to make good on this relationship by God - but Hick believes there are others - Muhammad - Buddha etc. Something to think about.
CI: That is one version of Buddhism. I think in strict Tharavedian buddhism the point is not to become a buddha but to become one with nothing.
Unless you choose, like Gautama did to be a Boddhistava - and that is different from the buddha nature of the Mihayannan (sp) concept of Buddhism.
TF
Interesting concepts, TF.
The thing that intrigues me, again, is: Why for example, in the Buddhist world, would we be created like this, this particular state of affairs.
There is something/nothing out there that needs or wants to see a buddhist movie (us) played out over the eons?
Keeping in mind the 8 fold path and 4 noble truths..
I realize one can attack the question as irrelevant, phrased wrong, etc.
We're here to reach nirvana. Get enlightened. Fine. But how or why, for example, would this state of affairs be created.
I don't remember asking to come here. Yet, here we all are.
ttf, It's just something I heard from a buddhist priest when we were in Japan on a buddhist pilgrimage last April. I'm not buddhist, but my wife is. All I know is that buddhism has many sects like christianity.
tcis:
Good points... I will have to do some looking into that one. I am not sure as though I have ever even questioned why - I have just focused on the that. Meaning, the world is this way - but what would the Buddhist think the purpose is of that.
I am not sure they have any intelligent design in thier universe... it is just how to transcend what we see around us.
Thank you for making me think today - I needed that.
TF
C.I., don't you think that when Americans talk about buddhism it is either about the zen or nichirin versions.
I don't know, but I have the impression that zen buddhists would attribute our interest in the question "Why were we created?" to the strength of our egos. Our egos feel that their existence is of great importance. Are we equally fascinated by the question "Why were frogs created?" ?
JLN, Although we were buddhist in childhood before WWII, our mother converted to christianity while interred in concentration camp. My wife is buddhist, but I'm an atheist. My knowledge of buddhism and christianity is very limited - to say the least. However, I found this interesting link on buddhism on the web.
http://www.duke.edu/~dmm12/buddhism/index3.html
Thanks, C.I., very good. I'll save it. But I think there are far fewer Buddhists than the 360 million reported in the article. I'm being a bit bigoted, I know. But I consider "true" buddhism to be the insights of the meditative forms of buddhism which includes zen and the theravadan practitioners in places like Burma. The others who call themselves "buddhists" are in the same category as the majority of christians, muslims, and hindus. They are simply "church-going believers." The true followers of Islam are the Sufis; the true followers of Christianity are the practically non-existent descendants of the early "desert fathers" (the christian mystics) like Miester Eckhart and Paul Tillich; the true followers of Hinduism are the practitioners of Vendanta, and so forth. You can see my bias. The truly religious people are the mystics of the world religions. Indeed, the term "religion" comes from the re-ligare, to reconnect oneself with Reality (ligare is like ligament, that which connects bone and tissue).
Sam's quote, "I have a problem with the Book Genesis." My problem is with all the books of the bible. Put together, they are contradictory.
ci
Me too really, The Bible contains too many contradictions for comfort. It has been translated and rewritten more often than any other book. Even the best intentioned often put their own "spin" :wink: on rewrites.
Sorry about the failed science experiment post, no excuse, I was having a "fed up with the universe" moment.
I can see no reason for the creation of the universe, if it is in deed created, other than the need to create. Starting form the image and likeness concept, humans are creative beings. Left on our own we make things, perhaps God is the same.
I like the idea of God as a "good parent", not the hell fire and brimstone, punish the evil sinner, God presented by many religions. What does a good parent do for their children? To me they provide guidance either by example or out right teaching. They allow for learning by mistakes. They do not demand that the child become what they want the child to become.
My Dad had a couple of things he said to me regularly. "I can tell you about life, but I can not tell you how to live." And " I do not care what you choose to do for work, just try to be the best you can be in what ever you choose to do."
Is life just an accident? Did "God make me to know love and serve Him in this world and to be with Him in the next"? (A direct quote form the Baltimore Catechism, Roman Catholic.) Are we all future Gods in training, being groomed to create an infinite number of universes and other beings in our own images and likenesses? Are we just bits of God, given self-awareness and freedom for a time and then returning to rejoin The One? Will there ever be an answer?
Sam
JLN, I'm told that many buddhists in Japan practice both shintoism and buddhism at the same time. I agree with you that the truly religious are very few in number - past, present or future. Profession of religion is almost meaningless; we can find both extremes of good and bad in all.
It's tough JL... I would be loathe to talk about 'real' anyone (as far as religion goes). Even though I tend to agree at this point I think that Mayayannan (man I cannot spell that word) buddhist (who venerate the buddha) thnk that are buddhists in every sense of the word. It would be like exclusing Catholics from 'real' chrisitans because they believe in prayer to beings other than God.
But, by far the most popular Buddhism is not the most 'real' - just like the concept of Christianity (Sell everything and follow me) is so convoluted that we have an entire party dedicated to capitolism and christianity at the same time. The last time I checked, getting rich and getting to heaven were as easy as a camel getting through the eye of a needle... but hey, that is me.
Maybe I am sick seeing the damned Reagan funeral today.
TF
