Speed of light revisited yet still again

@DNA Thumbs drive,

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

Brandon, seriously, if you provided a million links that all said that space was expanding, it could not be proven true, by a million people who have never been there, or examined evidence from there....

My point was not to go all over space making measurements, then come back and tell you about it. My point was to tell you what the world scientific community thinks. To sum up your position, you are saying that regardless of the opinion of the world's scientists, you who cannot solve the easiest high school physics problem declare absolutely (a) that relativity has been proven invalid and (b) that space is not expanding. I'll let people draw their own conclusions about that. To sum you up:

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

Relativity has already been proven wrong....

"In physics, special relativity (SR, also known as the special theory of relativity or STR) is the accepted physical theory regarding the relationship between space and time."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity

"General relativity, or the general theory of relativity, is the geometric theory of gravitation published by Albert Einstein in 1916[1] and the current description of gravitation in modern physics."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity

"The theory of relativity is perhaps the most successful development in the history of science in terms of its agreement with experimental results and its ability to predict new phenomena - only quantum mechanics can claim to compete with its success."

Source: http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/relativity.php

"Special relativity is a theory in physics that concerns the relationship between space and time, and says that they're two sides of the same coin -- spacetime. Like all scientific theories, it is backed by a large body of evidence and is widely accepted as being accurate"

Source: http://education-portal.com/academy/lesson/theory-of-special-relativity-definition-equation-quiz.html

"General relativity is the prevailing, modern theory of gravity."

Source: http://www.insidescience.org/content/celebrating-einstein-through-100-years-general-relativity/958

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

There is no evidence that space is expanding

"As bizarre as it may seem, space itself is expanding - specifically, the vast regions of space between galaxies."

Source: http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/seuforum/faq.htm

"The metric expansion of space is the increase of the distance between two distant parts of the universe with time. It is an intrinsic expansion whereby the scale of space itself changes."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space

"The only thing expanding is space itself."

Source: http://www.universetoday.com/107142/is-everything-in-the-universe-expanding/

"Thus, the universe is not expanding "outwards" into pre-existing space; space itself is expanding, defined by the relative separation of parts of the universe. "

Source: http://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/topics_bigbang_expanding.html

So, in conclusion:

1. You cannot solve the simplest high school physics problem. I know this because I gave you one and you couldn't solve it, then another poster came along with the right answer. No one would consider a question about centripetal force to be unfairly difficult.
2. Everything you have said is categorically contrary to the consensus of the scientific community, but you declare that you are right and they are wrong.
3. I have provided many links to support my position, but when asked to provide links to show that space is not expanding or that relativity is considered by the scientific community to be an invalid theory, you pretend not to see them.

1 Reply

Brandon, I have watched your exchanges with the so-called "DNA Thumbs Drive" and I have to advise you of something: you are knowledgeable about physics, but you are unable to spot a troll! He doesn't know (or care) anything about relativity or any other aspect of current science; he only wants to get attention and argue with people. He is an idiot not worth arguing with. Of course he will pretend to not see anything inconvenient. That's what infantile trolls do, and you are diminishing yourself by bothering to argue with him.

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@contrex,

Brandon can think quite well on his own, he does not need a jealous null fool like you telling him what he can or can not do.

Enjoy.

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@rosborne979,

Quote:

And the more I try to simplify them and come up with analogies which are intuitive, the less accurate the answer becomes.

Ros have you tried my preposterous theory intuitively explaining relativistic changes in the moving object

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Quote:

False

Then you and I Bran must have starkly different understandings of the relativistic effect of motion

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@Brandon9000,

In order to say that space is expanding, there must be evidence to this, please present this now. This evidence must include evidence from 250 to 300 trillion miles away from here, where the imagined expansion is taking place.

Remember how logical, it was that the Earth was flat. Any person, who claims to know what is happening 300 trillion miles from here, is either a fool, or has a book to sell. How many books did Hawking sell, before he said that he was wrong, or just plain made it up.

Distances are increasing, thus the space between universal objects (galaxies) is increasing correspondingly, this is true if the big bang is real, and let's assume that it is. There is however no reason to even say, that the space that matter is expanding into is being created, without either evidence of this creation, or of the means to do this creation.

And again, the parts of relativity that were not already disproved, are theory, if they were real, the theory could no longer exist. Have you ever heard of the fact of relativity....

No you have not, yet you believe just like a religious pilgrim of faith believes without understanding.

http://img.slate.com/features/badastronomy_archive/files/2012/05/fake_eclipse.jpg

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

Ros have you tried my preposterous theory intuitively explaining relativistic changes in the moving object

Yes, we went through weeks of tedious discussion on this in another thread over a year ago and none of us who know anything about SR or GR could even make sense of what you were proposing. An incredibly frustrating and ultimately unproductive adventure.

2 Replies

@rosborne979,

Hileman's a troll--when he's no longer getting the attention he craves, he cranks this old BS up again so he can once more be, briefly, the center of attention.

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@rosborne979,

Quote:

and ultimately unproductive adventure

Alas Ros my apologies and regrets

Still none of my adversaries showed how I was wrong

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Dale ill man wrote:

Still none of my adversaries showed how I was wrong

The kind of of argument that shows clearly that you were wrong..

1 Reply

@DNA Thumbs drive,

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

In order to say that space is expanding, there must be evidence to this, please present this now. This evidence must include evidence from 250 to 300 trillion miles away from here, where the imagined expansion is taking place.

Remember how logical, it was that the Earth was flat. Any person, who claims to know what is happening 300 trillion miles from here, is either a fool, or has a book to sell. How many books did Hawking sell, before he said that he was wrong, or just plain made it up.

Distances are increasing, thus the space between universal objects (galaxies) is increasing correspondingly, this is true if the big bang is real, and let's assume that it is. There is however no reason to even say, that the space that matter is expanding into is being created, without either evidence of this creation, or of the means to do this creation.

And again, the parts of relativity that were not already disproved, are theory, if they were real, the theory could no longer exist. Have you ever heard of the fact of relativity....

No you have not, yet you believe just like a religious pilgrim of faith believes without understanding.

1. You stated categorically that space is not expanding and then ignored all requests to provide a reference. I don't intend to list the experiment and theory which lead the world scientific community to this conclusion. I have demonstrated with multiple references that this is indeed the consensus of the world scientific community, which was my goal.

What is your absolute statement that space isn't expanding based on? It isn't based on what the scientific community thinks, because I have shown that they believe the opposite. It isn't based on your personal research because you haven't given such an argument and have no education in or knowledge of physics. What then is your absolute statement based on? Apparently, just the fact that you say so.

2. You have stated that "relativity has already been proven wrong.... " Proven wrong by whom? I have listed multiple references showing that this isn't what the world scientific community says. They refer to it as the currently accepted theory. Who was it proven wrong by? You?

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

...Einstein says if Marty leaves at noon her time, she arrives here a very short time later with her watch still reading 12:00...

Where does Einstein say this? Provide a quotation and a link.

Einstein says that one cannot ever be observed travelling at the speed of light, and that if one travels close to the speed of light compared to another object, the two will differ as to the amount of time which has passed. Provide me with any link to show that relativity claims the traveler will observe zero time passage.

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Quote:

Where does Einstein say this? Provide a quotation and a link.

Bran please don't make me do that. This sort of thing is replacing too much of my morning yardwork

Instead I wonder if you might reword the statement so that it rings true to you, whereupon we can more easily debate the diffs

But if you merely mean Einstein didn't make reference to Marty's trip, then of course I'd agree. It's called license, a very common practice not intended to be literal

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

Quote:
Where does Einstein say this? Provide a quotation and a link.

Bran please don't make me do that. This sort of thing is replacing too much of my morning yardwork

Instead I wonder if you might reword the statement so that it rings true to you, whereupon we can more easily debate the diffs

But if you merely mean Einstein didn't make reference to Marty's trip, then of course I'd agree. It's called license, a very common practice not intended to be literal

You have completely misstated relativity. You are spouting gibberish, just like you were a year ago. Please provide a link to Einstein saying that any person who travels between two different points would experience zero time passage. It's your attribution to Einstein. Give me a reference.

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@timur,

Quote:

The kind of of argument that shows clearly that you were wrong..

Yes, no, Tim, it seems no matter what I report, propose, or speculate upon, I am attacked mercilessly

I can understand opposition to my crazy time-at-a-distance relative relativity, but even if I quote Einstein…..

..in regard for instance to the reading of Marty's watch during her trip. Of course Albert made no specific mention of Marty but when I describe the apparent results of her trip, clearly spelled out and well known, I'm also attacked mercilessly

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@Brandon9000,

I do not have to prove that space is expanding. If you believe that space is being created by some force, you must show this force, this is the scientific method, even in your high school physics class.

1 Reply

@DNA Thumbs drive,

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

I do not have to prove that space is expanding. If you believe that space is being created by some force, you must show this force, this is the scientific method, even in your high school physics class.

You claimed that space is not expanding. I have demonstrated that it's the consensus of the world scientific community that it is. That was my goal. I have no intention of re-proving every common scientific result I quote.

1 Reply

Dale wrote:

Yes, no, Tim, it seems no matter what I report, propose, or speculate upon, I am attacked mercilessly

Victimizing yourself, are you?

I don't do vicious attacks, just point out how clueless you are about stuff you are supposed to know professionally..

Just ponder before posting..

1 Reply

@timur,

Quote:

I don't do vicious attacks, just point out how clueless you are about stuff you are supposed to know professionally

Then Tim please explain what's wrong with my description of Marty's trip

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Please explain how space is expanding, and how this is known......

You will fail, as you are babbling.

1 Reply

Speed of light revisited yet still again

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