0
   

Why do people associate evolution with where life came from

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 07:14 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
If you can't present any facts, then do not disagree with people who do not accept your theory. Bye the way some synonyms to theory are, assumption, doctrine, ideology, philosophy, scheme, speculation, suspicion, conjecture, guesswork, hunch, presumption, shot, supposal, surmise, and supposition.

I disagree with you because you misrepresent our point of view and have offered no substitute that has been stated clearly and makes sense.

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
Now when you say that you have a theory that hard drives and computer like code formed in a pond, and I say that I have a theory that hard drives and computer like codes can not form in a pond. Which makes scientific sense?

Not only have I not said that I believe that hard drives and computer like code formed in a pond, I have said to you over and over that I do not believe it. What I have said is that I believe that after many years of random chemical combinations in the oceans a molecule much, much simpler than DNA formed which could copy itself and that through a slow process of evolution, it eventually resulted in DNA. How do you get hard drives spontaneously forming in ponds from this? I have consistently only referred to a molecule that could copy itself.

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
Does it make scientific sense to say that if humanity can get basic life forms to take hold on another planet, that humanity would have acted in a manner that has been attributed to what God is said to have done here in the past? And that if these forms of life evolve, that they could one day ask, from where did we come, thus evolutionary theory is proved, by humans who acted as God.

First of all, if some other beings seeded Earth, then the question would only be pushed back to the origin of their life, and, furthermore, there is no reason to prefer this over the simpler explanation that it started here.
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 07:29 pm
@Brandon9000,
Your point of view, is that life spawned from nothing and nowhere, this does not even constitute a point of view, in fact it is closer to not having a point of view.

You then say that after many years of random gibberish, that more random gibberish was the gibberish. Dude, a third grader could make the suppositions of evolution, and it takes no brains to say that "it just happened Daddy"

Well it just happened Daddy is not science, in fact the theory of evolution hinges of pure faith, and when examined closely, it will be condemned by science as heresy, or just plain nonsense, the lack of a better idea, does not make another idea more correct.

Seriously, a creationist could easily say, that God spawned from a warm pond, and then created life, would you accept this????????

Science is behind me, and the idea that both codes and hardware to hold those codes are the products of very high intelligence, from somewhere. See if you can disprove this concept by science.

Does this look random?
http://opensourcehacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Screen-Shot-2012-10-07-at-1.51.37-PM.png

Does this look random?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/AMY1cDNA.png/640px-AMY1cDNA.png
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 07:54 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Sorry - I won't say God.

The trouble with the creator hypotheis is 'who created the creator?'

Is that better?
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 07:59 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Quote:
Science is behind me


It sure is (making circular gestures around its temple with it's finger)
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:01 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

Your point of view, is that life spawned from nothing and nowhere, this does not even constitute a point of view, in fact it is closer to not having a point of view.

You then say that after many years of random gibberish, that more random gibberish was the gibberish. Dude, a third grader could make the suppositions of evolution, and it takes no brains to say that "it just happened Daddy"

Well it just happened Daddy is not science, in fact the theory of evolution hinges of pure faith, and when examined closely, it will be condemned by science as heresy, or just plain nonsense, the lack of a better idea, does not make another idea more correct.

Seriously, a creationist could easily say, that God spawned from a warm pond, and then created life, would you accept this????????

Science is behind me, and the idea that both codes and hardware to hold those codes are the products of very high intelligence, from somewhere. See if you can disprove this concept by science.

Does this look random?
http://opensourcehacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Screen-Shot-2012-10-07-at-1.51.37-PM.png

Does this look random?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/AMY1cDNA.png/640px-AMY1cDNA.png


Your argument that it's implausible is faulty. I agree that the idea that modern day computers or life as it is today could spontaneously assemble is not plausible, but that's not what we're saying. We are saying that after hundreds of millions of years of random chemical reactions throughout the Earth's oceans, a molecule that copied itself was formed by chance. Getting from that self-replicating molecule to the present situation is the result of evolution - genetic mistakes of which some are favorable acting over billions of years. A molecule that copies itself is not a computer with an operating system running software. The former forming spontaneously is plausible, the latter is not. You should stop misrepresenting our belief as something that we ourselves would also agree is implausible and address yourself to our actual belief.

Your use of the phrase "the products of very high intelligence" is interesting. Do you believe that life on Earth is the product of very high intelligence," and, if so, how did those intelligent beings evolve?
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:04 pm
@hingehead,
Science, and Louis Pasteur disproved abiogenesis and spontaneous generation a long time ago. This is taught in all textbooks, except in those that also teach that abiogenesis is the source of all life.

Now that is circular, and comical indeed.
0 Replies
 
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:08 pm
@Brandon9000,
Now you are not only saying that life could come from lifelessness, but you are also claiming that a rat could give birth to a primate, which is exactly what evolutionary theory calls for. Oh of course, you will claim that over millions of years, that rats evolved into a humans. Well if this is true, why are there still rats, if rats evolved into humans.

Evolution relies on circular logic, created from a complete lack of thought.

As for high intelligence, if life is moved to Mars or Europa, yes I believe that this will be the product of very high intelligence, as low intelligence people do not build spacecraft, nor do genetic science. There is thus no reason that high intelligence did not influence this planet, and this theory is seriously more plausible than "it just happened one day in a pond Daddy"
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:34 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
Science, and Louis Pasteur disproved abiogenesis and spontaneous generation a long time ago. This is taught in all textbooks, except in those that also teach that abiogenesis is the source of all life.
Now that is circular, and comical indeed.

There is a difference between saying that a self-replicating molecule formed once or twice by random chemical interactions in the world's oceans over hundreds of millions of years and that complex life forms spontaneously form all over the world regularly. Wasn't it the latter proposition that Pasteur disproved by showing that it didn't happen in a few trials? He certainly didn't do any experiments that would disprove that a self-replicating chemical could form given a world of oceans and hundreds of millions of years in which to do it.

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
Now you are not only saying that life could come from lifelessness, but you are also claiming that a rat could give birth to a primate, which is exactly what evolutionary theory calls for. Oh of course, you will claim that over millions of years, that rats evolved into a humans. Well if this is true, why are there still rats, if rats evolved into humans.
Evolution relies on circular logic, created from a complete lack of thought.

I am certainly not saying that a rat could give birth to a primate. You seem to rely on misrepresenting our opinions and then disproving those misrepresentations. I am referring to a line of descent stretching over billions of years with only infinitessimal changes from parent to child. I believe the theory is that both humans and apes descend from a common ancestor with some ape-like qualities. One branch of the tree slowly turned into people and the other branch slowly turned into today's apes. This is hardly a rat having a litter of primates.

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
As for high intelligence, if life is moved to Mars or Europa, yes I believe that this will be the product of very high intelligence, as low intelligence people do not build spacecraft, nor do genetic science. There is thus no reason that high intelligence did not influence this planet, and this theory is seriously more plausible than "it just happened one day in a pond Daddy"

Some advanced creatures could have seeded live on Earth, but, if so, how did they evolve from nothing? Anyway, there is no particular evidence to support that theory over the simpler theory that life started here.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:39 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
You keep constructing a straw man of evolution and then claiming that it doesn't work. Well of course it doesn't work because your understanding of evolution, as depicted by your straw man, is all screwed up.
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:40 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon, can you grasp, that no matter how particular you are in your arguments, that there is still no evidence that either life formed in a pond, nor is this theory supported by scientific logic.

The following have to be in an exact order in the billions, for a life form to grow, one mistake and the effect could be fatal, mathematically, the randomness of this is an impossibility.

http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEPC/WWC/1994/dna_codes.gif

DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:41 pm
@rosborne979,
There is no understanding of where life that evolves came from, just your theory, that, "it just happened one day in a pond Daddy"

And to this, you claim science.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:49 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
Brandon, can you grasp, that no matter how particular you are in your arguments, that there is still no evidence that either life formed in a pond, nor is this theory supported by scientific logic.

The following have to be in an exact order in the billions, for a life form to grow, one mistake and the effect could be fatal, mathematically, the randomness of this is an impossibility.

http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEPC/WWC/1994/dna_codes.gif

The mechanism of evolution by the combination of reproductive accidents and natural selection is clear and would account for everything except the first step. The hypothesis that some self-copying molecule much simpler than DNA finally formed after countless chemical reactions over hundreds of millions of years is perfectly reasonable given the amount of time and ocean involved and it works as a first step. After that, evolution did the rest over billions of years.

Why have you not answered my question as to how your hypothetical creatures that seeded Earth evolved? Are you afraid of answering?
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:52 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
There is no understanding of where life that evolves came from, just your theory, that, "it just happened one day in a pond Daddy"

You are clinging to this overly simplistic and outdated phrase with profound and pitiful desperation. Various plausible mechanisms for abiogenesis have been proposed by science, all of which even in an incomplete form are vastly superior to anything you or anyone else has yet to come up with.

Simply observing that DNA is complex and capable of storing information is meaningless except in demonstrating your incredulity.

DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:56 pm
@rosborne979,
A theory founded on nothing, which is what abiogenesis from a pond is, can never become outdated. It could be replaced by something new, but become outdated.......never.

Now, the news that DNA is now a hard drive that has been used to store binary computer code, that is new, and proves that DNA is in fact a storage media, for the coding of life forms, that did not "just form in a pond one day Daddy"

Of course if you have evidence that supports this......well you don't so why go thru it again.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 09:00 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA stores code is new? What planet are you from?
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 09:03 pm
@Brandon9000,
Actually the randomness of evolutionary mutations is being challenged, as they may well be a programmed part of the evolutionary process that is encoded into the DNA code, we may call them random only because the code is still too complex for us to decode fully. Junk DNA is also being challenged, as it was only named junk DNA because the discoverer of the parts did not know what they were used for, thus junk DNA might be the library from where seemingly random mutations come from, or it may be the leftovers of past evolution, which might mean that every life form that is extinct could be rebuilt form the parts here, or new ones formed, if an intelligent life form does gene splicing or some as of now undiscovered process of new life formation.

The person who is sure, is a BS artist.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 09:11 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
Actually the randomness of evolutionary mutations is being challenged, as they may well be a programmed part of the evolutionary process that is encoded into the DNA code, we may call them random only because the code is still too complex for us to decode fully. Junk DNA is also being challenged, as it was only named junk DNA because the discoverer of the parts did not know what they were used for, thus junk DNA might be the library from where seemingly random mutations come from, or it may be the leftovers of past evolution, which might mean that every life form that is extinct could be rebuilt form the parts here, or new ones formed, if an intelligent life form does gene splicing or some as of now undiscovered process of new life formation.

The person who is sure, is a BS artist.

The theory of evolution refers to actual accidents. Actual accidents occur during reproduction. For the most part they are harmful, but very occasionally one creates an improvement. Natural selection determines what is an improvement. This mechanism enables creatures to evolve towards greater functionality in their environments and often permits them to cope with changes in their environments, e.g. in climate. Bacteria become resistant to antibiotics because bacteria that survive a medicine will tend to have more offspring than bacteria that are killed by the medicine.
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 09:15 pm
@hingehead,
DNA storing binary computer code is a very new technology that is still in its infancy. You may not be aware that Harvard scientist have taken DNA, and used it to store a book, and photographs..... Why? because you are ignoring the present and future both, and choosing to exist in the long dead past, where science can not disprove your nonsense. The future is different however, as intelligent people will influence and create life. In addition to using DNA to store digital copies of Darwin's bird watching chronicles. So read and learn.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/510246/why-dna-will-someday-replace-the-hard-drive/

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/134672-harvard-cracks-dna-storage-crams-700-terabytes-of-data-into-a-single-gram
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 09:21 pm
@Brandon9000,
You have proof that evolution is caused by accidents? The fact is that we view random mutations as random, because the method for how they happen can not be fully understood, an accident seems probable, but without understanding all of the billions of lines of DNA code in an organism, declaring any change as being an accident, is just not logical, and if the accident results in a better organism, this could easily be part of an intelligent chemical computer program. Again DNA among other things is a storage media for the code of life, and if chosen, Superman Comics too.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 10:03 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
You have proof that evolution is caused by accidents? The fact is that we view random mutations as random, because the method for how they happen can not be fully understood, an accident seems probable, but without understanding all of the billions of lines of DNA code in an organism, declaring any change as being an accident, is just not logical, and if the accident results in a better organism, this could easily be part of an intelligent chemical computer program. Again DNA among other things is a storage media for the code of life, and if chosen, Superman Comics too.

You still don't have a basic understanding of the theory of evolution. As you have been told ad nauseum, the mechanism has nothing to do with DNA. You should look in a book or something. The theory of evolution is that actual accidents in reproduction coupled with natural selection slowly produce improvement in the gene pool. DNA itself is the result of evolution.

 

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