7
   

death and evolution

 
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2014 04:45 pm
@fresco,
Will this do, fresc?

http://johnbolton.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cuckoo-clock.jpg
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2014 08:18 pm
@martinies,
martinies wrote:

The great wall of china which can be seen from outer space was built at the cost of much death to protect the people of china from death. Either way death built the great wall of china. Death created the great wall of china which can be seen from outer space. So a nonlocal element caused the great wall of china. Death.


Firstly, to the subject of the urban legend, the Great Wall of China cannot be seen from low earth orbit with the nakid eye.
Secondly, it was NOT built to protect Chinese people from death. It was to protect from invasion. Since invasion does not equal total genocide of the indiginous (sp?) persons, your entire hypothesis collapses on itselft. More succintly, you're full of ****.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2014 08:19 pm
Quote:
One popular myth about space exploration is that the Great Wall of China is the only human-built structure that can be seen from space. But it’s not true. The reality is that you can’t easily see the Great Wall from low Earth orbit with the unaided eye. And certainly, the Apollo astronauts couldn’t see it from the Moon, even though that urban legend has been widely circulated.

Canadian astronaut Chris Hadfield, who just returned from five months aboard the International Space Station, reiterated the facts about the Great Wall’s visibility from space. “The Great Wall of China is not visible from orbit with the naked eye,” Hadfield said via Twitter. “It’s too narrow, and it follows the natural contours and colours [of the landscape].”

Additionally, when China’s first astronaut, Yang Liwei, went into space in 2003, he said that he couldn’t see the structure of the Great Wall from out his capsule window.

martinies
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2014 11:28 pm
@Wilso,
All we are saying here is that death one way or another causes evolutionary change . If there is a god then god is death. By logic if theres a god then that god causes evolution by himself which is death. So by evolution through death god would have caused man as a life form to exist. God as a probabilty that is.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 01:39 am
I don't see any need for a god hypothesis when we have something actually observable. https://www.sciencenews.org/article/%E2%80%98mass-extinction%E2%80%99-vivifies-science-die-offs

Quote:
‘Mass Extinction’ vivifies the science of die-offs

Mass Extinction: Life on the Brink
Premieres November 30
Smithsonian Channel

Anyone with a passing interest in dinosaurs knows that the beasts were killed off some 65 million years ago after a colossal asteroid struck Earth. But what many people probably don’t know is how paleontologists came to that conclusion. Mass Extinction: Life at the Brink tells that story.

The hour-long documentary, airing on the Smithsonian Channel, explores the causes of two of Earth’s five mass extinctions: the dinosaurs’ demise and the “Great Dying.” That long-ago extinction, roughly 252 million years ago, saw as many as 97 percent of species on Earth disappear. By focusing on how researchers have pieced together these ancient whodunits, Mass Extinction offers great insight into how science works.

The film begins with a journey back in time — to the 1970s. Geologist Walter Alvarez is studying rocks in Italy. An odd sliver of clay in a stretch of limestone intrigues him: It contains an unusually high concentration of iridium, an element that is normally rare in Earth’s crust. Similar iridium-rich layers appear elsewhere around the world and all date to around the time of the dinosaur extinction. Working with his Nobel Prize–winning physicist father, Luis, Alvarez hypothesizes that the iridium came from an asteroid. The documentary goes on to show how subsequent studies over the last few decades have uncovered remnants of the asteroid’s gigantic crater and have calculated the extent of the space rock’s destruction.
...
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 01:42 am
@martinies,
martinies wrote:

All we are saying here is that death one way or another causes evolutionary change . If there is a god then god is death. By logic if theres a god then that god causes evolution by himself which is death. So by evolution through death god would have caused man as a life form to exist. God as a probabilty that is.


I must go with contrex on this one, and suggest you mix a little more tobacco with it.
0 Replies
 
martinies
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 01:48 am
@FBM,
Exactly fbm anther example of deaths(gods) guiding hand in evolution.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 02:06 am
I think the OP is trying to say that death is a necessary part of the process of evolution, (i.e. the phenotype does not affect the genotype). But necessity does not equate to causal sufficiency, and that is where the thesis goes off the rails.

Evoking a "God" to account for (or embody) the process of "death propelled evolution", has the problem of departing from "a caring entity" which seems to be a central requirement for believers. Nor does it encompass the recent practice of genetic
engineering on the part of humans which negates even the "necessity thesis" about death.

Residual artifacts of lifeforms which ostensibly "survive death", whether they be bird's nests or Chinese walls, are of course irrelevant to the OP thesis, and anyway, entropy will obliterate their traces in the long run.
martinies
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 02:38 am
@fresco,
Gods exististance as death would be neutral in the event. You have to be kind to be neutral. Example . The good samariton is neutral in the event. Death is neutral. But as far as evolution goes death fits forms of life to there enviroment keeping it neutral and balanced giving forms and exact fit like a jigsaw puzzle piece.

fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 02:42 am
@Lordyaswas,
http://s26.postimg.org/u63bpjnat/death_love.jpg
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 02:48 am
@martinies,
Quote:
The good samariton is neutral in the event

Smile
You need to read up on Derrida's aporia.
0 Replies
 
martinies
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 02:48 am
@fresco,
Ha the not so grim reaper
martinies
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 02:50 am
@martinies,
Good manners are neutral to the event as is kindness.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 03:08 am
@martinies,
martinies wrote:

Exactly fbm anther example of deaths(gods) guiding hand in evolution.


Well, it's evidence for a mass extinction. Not sure where you're deriving the "death = god" idea, but if that metaphor works for you, go for it. It's better than the cosmic Santa-type god.
martinies
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 03:19 am
@FBM,
God is neutral . Death in neutral.love is neutral
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 03:55 am
@martinies,
You can't have it both ways. You can't have both a personified entity with a "purpose" which is also "neutral", because intent is the antithesis of neutrality.

Either what we call "evolution" is an admittedly complex self perpetuating process within specific physical parameters, or it is reflective of the human concept of "a guiding intelligence". All the evidence points to the former and none to the latter.
martinies
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 04:20 am
@fresco,
Yes self perpectuating and with no purpose. Except as an expression of nothing. Existance does not need purpose of its self it just is.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 04:23 am
Time for a soundtrack . . .

0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 05:34 am
@martinies,
martinies wrote:

God is neutral . Death in neutral.love is neutral


So am I, so in response to your statements, I say, "Maybe. Maybe not."
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 05:52 am
@martinies,
So why call it "God" ?

And anyway you have just contradicted yourself with respect to this comment
Quote:
Exactly fbm anther example of deaths(gods) guiding hand in evolution.
 

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