Are there any peaceful muslim nations?

You are showing a great deal of ignorance by displaying the most basic of knowledge and some misconceptions. All this because you hate Muslims, right ?

- their primary example for godly behaviour - what Mohammed did. They followed his example as they conquered each land. If you don't know how that applies to Islamic conquest, you will need to read up on it.

- the god mandated command to wage holy war until the world is Islamic, or subject to Dhimmitude
- their god mandated command to convert by any means possible
- their religious entitlement to booty from raids / conquests

you suggest that because Islam started through conquest,

Throughout your posts, you suggest that because Islam started through conquest, that they could not stop

insecurity itself is a human condition, with most countries / peoples NOT dealing with it through conquest

When you start off fighting for survival it is hard to know when to stop.

Can you not understand that in the Medina period they were fighting for survival ? Mecca was trying to kill everyone of them.

You've been reading right wing Christian literature haven't you ? Can you quote the Qur'an where it says that ?

Are you a native English speaker ? I have said many times the exact opposite. Islam was threatened with extinction. Read this very carefully...THEY WERE FIGHTING FOR SURVIVAL . Mecca tried to exterminate them.

But you wouldn't cherry-pick when quoting now would you ?

When you start off fighting for survival it is hard to know when to stop.

As I said it was hard for the Muslims to turn off expansion because of their fight for survival from their beginning in Medina.

I said their expansion was started based on their early fight for survival .

Could you show me one post where I denigrate muslims?

.but thank you for the hate.

How about this one ?http://able2know.org/topic/25915-52#post-5909106
Seeing you like inferences, how about your general tone that Muslims are to blame and never has it been a state war that just happened to involve Muslims ?

how about your general tone that Muslims are to blame

I can not accept your thanks . There is no hate . Just frustration that a simple concept is not understood by you and I am wondering is there a communication breakdown . How better to explain my point...???

butchering people

Islams invasion of Europe and Europes depopulation (while Europe fought for survival) from those Islamic invasions- contributed in large degree to the Dark Ages

is just weird. No one else I have read would even entertain that. The Dark ages occurred before the Muslim invasion, and the Christians did a pretty good job of defending themselves.

Understanding my point of feeling threatened is very important for understanding Islam today.

They again feel threatened. Western culture will do to their religion what it did to Christianity. Make it redundant in a world of pleasure and consumerism.

Yes, the USA directly threatened the survival of Japan.

They waited until there was no more negotiation possible then they went to war to secure the resources a modern economy needed and to build an Empire like their heroes the British.

If your argument consist of Christians and Jews good, Muslims bad then you are a prejudiced racist fool.

750 years of neighbours fighting goes way past simple conquest.

If two Christian nations go at it for a hundred years, say France and England, do you have the high moral ground to work out who is evil and who is Godly?

Or does your great moral wave of the hand only involve Muslims?

Are you aware the Jews conquered it too?

You say the land belonged to the Byzantines but also to the Romans but also to the Jews.

Anyone but the Muslims.

In fact, every conqueror except Muslims.

Why are you so full of hatred and fear of Islam?

Understanding causes goes much further to solving a problem then the racist screaming you indulge yourself in.

The Romans destroyed every large city then in existence during their wars of conquest, including Jerusalem.

How many large cities were destroyed by Islam?

Deadly blasts hit Pakistan churches in Lahore

Two bomb blasts have killed at least 14 people near two churches in a Christian neighbourhood of the Pakistani city of Lahore, local officials say.

More than 70 people were hurt in the explosions, which targeted worshippers attending Sunday mass at the churches in the Youhanabad area.

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace "Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2015.03.16 (Lashkar Gah, Afghanistan) - A woman and child Fare among four people liquidated by a Fedayeen suicide car bomber.
2015.03.16 (Oruzgan, Afghanistan) - A man is murdered in front of his wife and child by religious extremists.
2015.03.15 (Gedo, Somalia) - Six family members, including two children and two women, are slaughtered in their own home by al-Shabaab.
2015.03.15 (Mosul, Iraq) - Nine people are shot in the back of the head for 'betraying the religion of Allah'.
2015.03.14 (Nangarhar, Afghanistan) - Three children are pulled into pieces by fundamentalist bombers.
2015.03.13 (Mandera, Kenya) - Islamists ambush a car and shoot three occupants to death.

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

Lying (Taqiyya and Kitman)



Question:

Are Muslims permitted to lie?


Summary Answer:

Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.


The Qur'an:

Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.



From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).



Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.



Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."



Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."



Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.



From Islamic Law:



Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...



"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.

Is butchering an inaccurate word for what is done by all sides during invasions in the era we were talking about?

- victims of war, where they are such, is fine (as opposed to being victims of war even when they are in countries not at war with them, see below)
- victims of war on Islam isn't (it is very clearly not), and raises the question as to why the catchcry is so widespread, even among the educated.
- victims of freedom of speech (regarding criticism of the prophet or Islam) they are not...unless you buy that their prophet is sacrosanct, or that ideology shouldn't be criticised even when it has negative outcomes
- victims of persecution is problematic

you are saying they will invade because they feel threatened by culture creep?