Are there any peaceful muslim nations?

Glance at the borders of Muslims civilization, and then cast your eyes withen, and you'll see a civilization ringed by conflict on most sides, and embroiled in dozens of inner conflicts and several full scale civil wars. Need I run down the list?

Now look at the rest of the world.

No scientific analysis is neccessary - the discrepancy is clear to anyone with a modicum of geographic and political knowledge.



....and religion plays a central role in determining what people percieve to be advantageous/disadvantageous.




Indeed. But I'm not sure what the prupose of the second paragraph of your post is, considering I never suggested that the Muslims religion had anything to do with the inordinate amount of conflict Muslim nations are engaged in (although it may.) I merely pointed out the fact that the phenomena exists; I have made no claims as to its causes yet.

I simply don't see any correlation between "Muslim" and advantage/disadvantage, unless one were to ascribe the general disadvantage of "The Third World" to the attribute of being "Muslim".

Awesome. I never claimed otherwise. In fact, I made no claims whatsoever as to the causes of the phenomena.

I merely pointed out a fact which you seemed to be disputing. Namely that Muslim countries are engaged in a disproportionate amount of conflict.

Draw what conclusions you will.

Well, if you don't assign causality to the attribute of being Muslim, then I do not dispute your contention. Again, I haven't counted up the number and nature of nations currently in conflict, but I'll stipulate to your assertion.

OK ... lets count 'em up. As near as I can figure, here's the list of "Muslim Nations". If you can think of any more, go ahead and add to the list.

1. Afghanistan
   
2. Algeria
   
3. Azerbaijan
   
4. Bahrain
   
5. Bangladesh
   
6. Egypt
   
7. Indonesia
   
8. Iran
   
9. Iraq
   
10. Lebanon
    
11. Kazakstan
    
12. Kyrgyzstan
    
13. Kuwait
    
14. Oman
    
15. Pakistan
    
16. Qatar
    
17. Saudi Arabia
    
18. Somalia
    
19. Sudan
    
20. Syria
    
21. Tajikistan
    
22. Turkey
    
23. Uzbekistan
    
24. United Arab Emirates

I would say several of the above would qualify at least as "Not Warlike", if not "Peaceful". Do you argue that all of the above are otherwise? Certainly most of them are to some or another degree currently, one way or another, involved in conflict, I'll give you that.On the other hand, by a variety of qualifications, a very small number of the nearly 200 recognized nations on the planet are wholly uninvolved, one way or another, in conflict. Do you dispute that?

You are looking for casuality between Muslim nations and conflict????
Really?
Okay, let's take that baby out and give 'er a spin... :wink:
The following is plagerized from Haim Harari' The View From the Eye of the Storm. I have snipped and added to fit the question involved.

I would stipulate that the Muslim nations are totally dysfunctional, by any standard of the world. By any standard of any nation, including the Muslim nations being discussed.

To Wit:
The 22 member countries of the Arab league, from Mauritania to the Gulf States, have a total population of 300 millions, larger than the US and almost as large as the EU before its expansion.
They have a land area larger than either the US or all of Europe.
These 22 countries, with all their oil and natural resources, have a combined GDP smaller than that of Netherlands plus Belgium and equal to half of the GDP of California alone.
Within this meager GDP, the gaps between rich and poor are beyond belief and too many of the rich made their money not by succeeding in business, but by being corrupt rulers.

The social status of women is far below what it was in the Western World 150 years ago.
Human rights are below any reasonable standard, in spite of the grotesque fact that Libya was elected Chair of the UN Human Rights commission.

According to a report prepared by a committee of Arab intellectuals and published under the auspices of the U.N., the number of books translated by the entire Arab world is much smaller than what little Greece alone translates.

The total number of scientific publications of 300 million Arabs is less than that of 6 million Israelis.

Birth rates in the region are very high, increasing the poverty, the social gaps and the cultural decline.

And all of this is happening in a region, which only 30 years ago, was believed to be the next wealthy part of the world, and in a Moslem area, which developed, at some point in history, one of the most advanced cultures in the world.

These are facts. Please dispute them if you choose -

Now what is behind Muslim conflict; murders; civil wars; conquests; and other barbaric acts, such as committing suicide by blowing yourself up?

Money, power and cold-blooded murderous incitement, nothing else.

It actually has nothing to do with true fanatic religious beliefs.

No Moslem preacher has ever blown himself up.
No son of an Arab politician or religious leader has ever blown himself.
No relative of anyone influential has done it.
Wouldn't you expect some of the religious leaders to do it themselves, or to talk their sons into doing it, if this is truly a supreme act of religious fervor?
Aren't they interested in the benefits of going to Heaven?
Instead, they send outcast women, naïve children, retarded people and young incited hotheads.
They promise them the delights, mostly sexual, of the next world, and pay their families handsomely after the supreme act is performed and enough innocent people are dead.

This has nothing to do with with poverty and despair.

The poorest region in the world, by far, is Africa. It never happens there. There are numerous desperate people in the world, in different cultures, countries and continents.
Desperation does not provide anyone with explosives, reconnaissance and transportation.
There was certainly more despair in Saddam's Iraq then in Paul Bremmer's Iraq, and no one exploded himself.
A suicide murder is simply a horrible, vicious weapon of cruel, inhuman, cynical, well-funded terrorists, with no regard to human life, including the life of their fellow countrymen, but with very high regard to their own affluent well-being and their hunger for power.

This hunger for power is inherent in the Arab culture from which Islam descends. Arab power ethos is based on dominance and supremacy.
Islamic power ethos is based on dominance and supremacy.
Everything is "personal" in this sort of ethos and every insult, real or imagined, is a personal attack of which the most logical response, in this Islamic / Arab philosophy, is violent attack against the insult.

Hence, violence is a logical extension of the Arab culture from which the Islamic culture receives its jihaddist value system.

Yes, Muslim nation/cultures engage in far more conflict than the rest of the world.

And I contend it has everything to do with poverty and despair. Further, I lay blame for that poverty and despair upon neither the culture nor its peoples, but on the cynical, hypocritical despots who domimate them, largely by means of calculated perversion of the religious tenets which bind these otherwise disparate peoples. Problematic though the application of the solution may be, only the advent of true freedom and opportunity is going to resolve the problem of Muslim World conflict.

I'll add...

• Morocco - 98.7% Muslim according to the CIA World Factbook
  
• Djibouti - 94% Muslim
  
• Mauritania - 100% Muslim

...there may be more, those are just 3 that immediately came to mind.

And Tunesia...and Albania (it does have a Muslim minority, although a lot of Albanians belong to the Orthodox or Roman-Catholic Churches). And Libya. And Jordan.

The CIA World Factbook estimates that 70% of Albania's population is Muslim...not really a minority.

That list was just a quickie I came up with at the time. I was sure then I missed some; that's why I said "If you can think of any more, go anead and add to the list." Lessee now ... we're up to how many? 31, isn't it? In reference to the subject of this topic, per its title, "Are there any peaceful muslim nations?" I'd say the answer is "Yes, there are several."

I would put Malaysia at the top of the list. Very peaceful nation that.

Generally speaking of course.

And lets not forget:

Are there really any peaceful nations? (choose any religion)

Okay.

Good list. You forgot a few - Turkmenistan, Brunei, Mali, Libya, Mauritania, Tunisia, Chad, and a few other African nations. There are also several conflicts involving groups of Muslims that are not yet nations, but are struggling to become so - Chechnya, Israel, Cyprus, etc.



No.



Indeed.



This is a trivial truism. The point is that Muslim countries are involved in a disproportionate amount of conflicts. Of course conflict is ubiquitous all over the world, but nowhere is it as virulant and widespread as the Muslim world. The reasons are debatable, but the fact remains.

Just glance at the periphery of Muslim civilization and you will see a border ringed with wars. There is war in Chechnya between Russians and Islamic separatists. There is ongoing conflict between Hindu India and Islamic Pakistan that continues to periodically erupt in violence and has resulted in several wars this century. There is war in Sudan between the Islamic North and the Christian/animist South, as well as Muslim vs Muslim conflict in Darfur province. There is what can accurately be described a guerilla war in Israel between Muslims and Jews. There is sporadic fighting in Azerbajan as the Muslim government tries to keep Christian separatists in check. Cyprus remains divided along hostile lines between the Christian South and the Muslim North. There is sporadic fighting in Morrocco over resource-rich Western Sahara. Dispite a cease-fire in Algeria, risidual fighting continues between Islamic Fundamentalists and the goverrnment. There is war in Iraq and Afghanistan between Muslims and Christian America. Somalia is embroiled in a perpetual state of quasi-tribal warfare that has resulted with America being handed its ass on a platter in our brief military encounter. Not to mention Islamic terrorism, which has become a global phenomena, and is also charecterized by Muslim violence against non-Muslims.

That was just a brief, incomplete list. The pattern is nonetheless clear: Muslims are involved in a disproportionate amount of conflict with non-Muslim nieghbors, resulting in a civilization that is hemmed in by conflicts of various magnitude. Nobody can seriously deny this.

Can you say the same for Europe, for South-East Asia, for South America? No. In fact, many of the conflicts in these other areas - such as Europe and South-East Asia - also involve Muslims. In Europe, for example, the major conflicts of the last couple decades have involved Muslims. Bosnian Muslims fought a disasterous war with Orthodox Serbs, and have also engaged in conflict with Catholic Croatians. Muslims in Kosovo fought against thier Serbian-dominated government, resulting in international intervention. South-East Asia offers a similar story to a lesser degree.

Now, in this thread I have not even speculated on the causes yet. We can do so if you wish...but first we have to agree that this phenomena does exist, no?

Sorry, I meant majority. You're totally right.

Good post IronLionZion.

Not that this particular example changes a lot in actual "full picture" (and this full picture probably can be interpreted in few ways) - but Bosnian Muslims were good side in Bosnian war. Including their short conflict with Bosnian Croats.

No reply Timber? How disappointing.

No it doesn't, really. "Nowhere is conflict as virulant and widespread as the Muslim world?" What about Christian Africa?

All in all, looking at all your lists and the atlas, I come to some 39 mostly Islamic countries (counting Palestine), of which some 12 are currently involved in cross-border or civil war / violent conflict.

In non-Muslim Africa, I count some 36 countries, of which some 12 are involved in cross-border or internal violent conflict.

One in three countries, thus, in both cases ... that alone should answer the question "Are there any peaceful muslim nations".



(Echoing MOU, it is interesting, by the way, to see how some of the cases you mention (Bosnia, Kosovo) have shown a Muslim nation long exercising the greater restraint of the two (or three) fighting parties, when confronted with the violent rebellion resp. crackdown from the other side. If one is to hypothetically lay blame on any one party for it all falling apart into flames in the end anyway, the Muslims in both cases are at the bottom of the list.)

A brief tally, if you will. Be sure to distinguish between interdenominational civil wars and cross-cultural wars.

(added stuff to my post above)