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Are there any peaceful muslim nations?

 
 
Buttermilk
 
  2  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 01:57 am
@Moishe3rd,














It's easy to say Muslims don't speak out when you actively don't look for it...


0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 03:08 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
vikorr, As usual, you only look for information about terrorism in majority Muslim countries.

This is blatantly untrue - I have posted numerous articles from Australia, at least one from Britain, and terrorism lists that contain a plethora of non-muslim countries.

That said - observing patterns regarding what happens in majority muslim countries is a major way to see if patterns exist in behaviour in majority muslim countries...to say otherwise is nonsensical. Hence, most, but not all, of my posts will show such.

If however what you are saying is comparison needs to be made with non-muslim countries - please refer the to total lists I posted on 'list of 2014 terrorist incidents' and 'list of terrorist incident's.

That you've only seen what you want to see doesn't surprise me - it's a known aspect of human nature
--------------------------

If you are wondering the purpose of my posting links to such things...some time back I said that people ignore the enormous breadth of Islamic violence...that they apologise for it. As they felt that I had no idea what I was talking about ...it was simply easier to post links to the plethora of examples out there.

As a generalisation - anyone that takes times to read through the links will see:
- a staggering geographical breadth of islamic violence
- a staggering quantity of violence
- an escalation to the violence
- a 'restlessness' whereever the religion gains sufficient foothold

Anyone that takes time to read on the founding on Islam, will see similarities in behaviour between todays violence and their prophets behaviour and commands (if you don't follow this, start reading about the founding / founder). That is not to say similarities between the particular destructive methods employed, but the similarities relating to:
- converting when they are the superior force
- what to do if they are faced with a militarily superior foe, etc (behaviour found during the founding/founders time)

Few understand that it is accepted in many parts of Islam that the world is divided into 'the abode of Islam' and 'the abode of war'...even if this isn't accepted by all, it's accepted by plenty.

Few consider what 5-8% extremism means when you have over 1 billion muslims.

Few know of, or consider the percentage of 'sympathisers' in regards to extremists, nor what such percentage of sympathisers means.

Few consider that muslims will happily admit that if you are in a Islamic Country, and you are not muslim, then you will be a second class citizen.

Few understand that the Quran isn't the only Holy book, and that it needs to be read in conjuction with 2 other Holy Books.

However...most aren't interested in looking at those books, the history, and comparing it to what is happening today...

As most want to argue though...it's easier to post the plethora of examples that will keep arising from Islam.
Buttermilk
 
  2  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 03:16 am
Is anyone here proficient in the Arabic language and/or knowledgeable on a scholarly level on Islam, or are we discussing this as amateurs?
vikorr
 
  0  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 04:03 am
@Buttermilk,
You don't need to be a scholar to read works by scholars / read works on the founding / read works on Islam...nor do you need to be a scholar to follow world events, nor to see recurring patterns, nor to form an informed opinion.

I dare say that it is those things that people have been discussing.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 11:00 am
@vikorr,
Yes, you have listed Australia and Britain, but you are reporting isolated cases that doesn't amount to a large number based on the Muslim population - in any country. In the US whites commit more crimes than blacks, and Muslims aren't even noted.

Here's a title of a book that should be a clue, but you'll ignore it because it doesn't support your position about Muslims.

Here's a data from the FBI about crimes by whites and blacks.
Quote:
Offense charged Total arrests Percent distribution1
Total.......White..........Black.......Am Indian....Asian or Pac Is
TOTAL..9,499,725.. 6,578,133...2,697,539....142,422

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 11:15 am
@cicerone imposter,
From Wiki. One needs to balance the population of the countries that are pro-terrorist activities against the majority Muslim countries who are against terroristm.
Quote:
Opinion surveys[edit]
Gallup conducted tens of thousands of hour-long, face-to-face interviews with residents of more than 35 predominantly Muslim countries between 2001 and 2007. It found that more than 90% of respondents condemned the killing of non-combatants on religious and humanitarian grounds.[105]
A 2004, a year after the invasion of Iraq, Pew Research Center survey found that suicide bombings against Americans and other Westerners in Iraq were seen as "justifiable" by many Jordanians (70%), Pakistanis (46%), and Turks (31%). At the same time, the survey found that support for the U.S.-led War on Terror had increased.[106][107]
A 2005 Pew Research study that involved 17,000 people in 17 countries showed support for terrorism was declining in the Muslim world along with a growing belief that Islamic extremism represents a threat to those countries.[108] A Daily Telegraph survey[109] showed that 88% of Muslims said the July 2005 bombings in the London Underground were unjustified, while 6% disagreed. However it also found that 24% of British Muslims showed some sympathy with the people who carried out the attacks.
Polls taken by Saudi owned Al Arabiya and Gallup suggest moderate support for the September 11 terrorist attacks within the Islamic world, with 36% of Arabs polled by Al Arabiya saying the 9/11 attacks were morally justified, 38% disagreeing and 26% of those polled being unsure.[110] A 2008 study, produced by Gallup, found similar results with 38.6% of Muslims questioned believing the 9/11 attacks were justified.[111] Another poll conducted, in 2005 by the Fafo Foundation in the Palestinian Authority, found that 65% of respondents supported the September 11 attacks.[112]
In Pakistan, despite the recent rise in the Taliban's influence, a poll conducted by Terror Free Tomorrow in Pakistan in January 2008 tested support for al-Qaeda, the Taliban, other militant Islamist groups and Osama bin Laden himself, and found a recent drop by half. In August 2007, 33% of Pakistanis expressed support for al-Qaeda; 38% supported the Taliban. By January 2008, al-Qaeda's support had dropped to 18%, the Taliban's to 19%. When asked if they would vote for al-Qaeda, just 1% of Pakistanis polled answered in the affirmative. The Taliban had the support of 3% of those polled.[105]
Pew Research surveys in 2008 show that in a range of countries – Jordan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Lebanon, and Bangladesh – there have been substantial declines in the percentages saying suicide-bombings and other forms of violence against civilian targets can be justified to defend Islam against its enemies. Wide majorities say such attacks are, at most, rarely acceptable. The shift of attitudes against terror has been especially dramatic in Jordan, where 29% of Jordanians were recorded as viewing suicide-attacks as often or sometimes justified (down from 57% in May 2005). In the largest majority-Muslim nation, Indonesia, 74% of respondents agree that terrorist attacks are "never justified" (a substantial increase from the 41% level to which support had risen in March 2004); in Pakistan, that figure is 86%; in Bangladesh, 81%; and in Iran, 80%.[105]
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 01:08 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:
You don't need to be a scholar to read works by scholars


Buttermilk has fallen for one of apologists favorite lies. There is a contention only a Muslim can understand Islam. this comes from propaganda by Edward Said and his book on Orientalism.

So what you have is the idea that no westerner has the capacity to understand what Islam is. Quite a ridiculous statement. All you need is a translation into any language and an understanding of abrogation to see what Islam advocates.

And it is not good. Which, like you said, can be seen by currents events and actual factual historical accounts. Not revisionist bullshit.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  0  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 01:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CI,

Your post shows that you both:
- don't have a clue in relation to the issues I was talking about, and
- have no interest in researching them.

You then wish to call me ignorant and selective...and yet in your certainty, you can't even be bothered to read up and check if you know what you are talking about. No doubt you will justify this to yourself with the silliness of 'I must be right, even if I've never looked into what he's talking about'

Now, the reason your data shows the above:
- I have outright stated, many times, that I find it to be a dangerous religion
- I listed the areas that I find issue with (in the post you replied to)...none of which claims they as a people have a greater crime rate...I have outright stated that I find it a dangerous religion.
- you didn't take issue with anything I said

If it helps you - a large majority of muslims are peaceful people. And that is not what makes it a dangerous religion.

The ongoing results of the part that makes it a dangerous religion is plain for everyone to see:
- once they start paying attention to the ongoing violence; and
- look into why it's occuring (the contributing circumstances, which inlcudes: economics, religions, culture, and politics)

All play a part, but the common theme is the religion...and there is a reason for that, easily found in their founding prophets behaviour and edicts.

In any event, I have little doubt that you won't bother looking much into what I've talked about...but will still hold that your perspective must be right.


0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 01:56 pm
Quote:

Boko Haram beheaded six-year-old Christian boy, group reports


http://www.christiantoday.com/article/boko.haram.beheaded.six.year.old.christian.boy/40066.htm

0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 01:57 pm
Quote:
Muslim Opinion Polls

A "Tiny Minority of Extremists"?

"Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be
unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is their destination."
Quran 9:73

Have you heard that Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence? That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone. Neither does it explain why religious violence is largely endemic to Islam, despite the tremendous persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries.

In truth, even a tiny minority of "1%" of Muslims worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly an insignificant number. However, the "minority" of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their goals, or their means of achieving them is much greater than this. In fact, it isn't even a true minority in some cases, depending on how goals and targets are defined.

The following polls convey what Muslims say are their attitudes toward terrorism, al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, the 9/11 attacks, violence in defense of Islam, Sharia, honor killings, and matters concerning assimilation in Western society. The results are all the more astonishing because most of the polls were conducted by organizations with an obvious interest in "discovering" agreeable statistics that downplay any cause for concern.

(These have been compiled over the years, so not all links remain active. We will continue adding to this).


Take a look CI.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Opinion-Polls.htm
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 02:08 pm
@coldjoint,
What has white supremacists have anything to do with other race violence?
You ever hear of the holocaust? How about the level of crime in the US?

Anyone can find racial bigots in this world because of people like you!

Look in the mirror; people who look like you commit more violent crimes in the US than any other group. Our christian nation has started illegal wars killing tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children, and we're talking after WWII. Zionists in Israel are killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians.

Do you know anything about the inquisition?

Since you're so ignorant about current and past history, you'll continue to spout your ignorance on a2k.
coldjoint
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 02:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Do you know anything about the inquisition?


Quote:
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined. (source)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition



I know that, did you? And Islam is not a race, pinhead.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 02:47 pm
Did Islam kidnap CI?http://www.acidpulse.net/images/smilies/rofl1.gif
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Sun 31 Aug, 2014 11:56 am
@coldjoint,

You people have a hard time confronting facts. Islam makes the Inquisition look like nothing with the sheer amount of dead bodies they stack up daily. While you whine about bigotry people are butchered.
vikorr
 
  3  
Fri 5 Sep, 2014 12:21 am
@coldjoint,
I think that CI misunderstands when others talks about the violence of islam...it's not referring to crime rates, but violence in the name of the religion.

When I refer to Islam as a dangerous religion, I am not referring to crime rates, but violence that occurs...done in the name of Islam...that would not occur without the religious influence of Islam....and that there is a breadth & quantity of this type of violence & intolerance...supported by enough muslims...underpinned by their founding prophets behaviour and edicts...to make it a dangerous religion.

The examples of this type of violence is currently frequently ongoing, and I've posted a mass of links to such.

To close your eyes to the plethora of intimidation, violence, and attrocities committed in the name of religion...to close your eyes to the obvious patterns of this violence (found after you look into why)...without even the curiosity to truly look into 'why'...and then to criticise people who have done so...is...
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 5 Sep, 2014 12:38 am
@vikorr,
I agree that Islam has extremists that commit violence, but it's not only against the west. They commit violence against each other. Even in Iraq, the Shia and Sunnis have been at it against each other for over one thousand years. I'm not blind to the atrocities committed in the name of religion whether we're talking about human history or current events.

All I wanted to point out was that the majority of Muslims are not violent. Compare that to the US violence against the Vietnamese and Iraqis that killed tens of thousands of innocent people by our illegal wars.

Maybe, you can enlighten me about these human events that I'm not aware of or are interpreting them erroneously.
vikorr
 
  2  
Fri 5 Sep, 2014 02:57 am
@cicerone imposter,
Hi CI

Quote:
I agree that Islam has extremists that commit violence, but it's not only against the west.
We can both agree on that.

Quote:
All I wanted to point out was that the majority of Muslims are not violent
We both agree on this too (I mentioned this earlier).

Quote:
Maybe, you can enlighten me about these human events that I'm not aware of or are interpreting them erroneously
I'm not certain what you are referring to when you say 'these human events'. If you mean 'violence in the name of religion' as 'these human events'...then it's a confusing statement, because you've commented on the links I've posted.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 5 Sep, 2014 01:40 pm
@vikorr,
You wrote,
Quote:
If you mean 'violence in the name of religion' as 'these human events'...then it's a confusing statement, because you've commented on the links I've posted.


I have commented, but I'm asking for your opinion.
vikorr
 
  2  
Fri 5 Sep, 2014 03:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Alright, then if I understand you right - you are asking for my opinion on...individual links I've posted?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 5 Sep, 2014 03:04 pm
@vikorr,
Would be acceptable. Thx.
 

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