@rosborne979,
Quote:And that it [God] created the Universe in such a way that its own presence and actions are virtually indistinguishable from nature.
Is that about right?
Not quite right, but this isn't a 25 word or less issue, so one at a time.
The universe is in a different category than his presence and actions. The idea that the universe is indistinguishable from nature (natural causes) is a modern notion (albeit false). Some earlier men looked around the world and thought it was obvious there had to be something far more powerful than themselves behind the universe. But the universe was a self sustaining thing that required no direct intervention from a God to go on so early man too, could ignore its miraculous nature and be preoccupied with mere survival if they chose. But still, the evidence/clues were there to be seen. Just because some of them made up fanciful stories about them does not negate the fact that they had those clues.
Today, we just have other reasons beyond the apparent static nature of the universe to ignore its mystery. Today's myth is that we know there is no mystery but in fact, we know even greater and deeper mysteries about creation. Scientists know and are fascinated by them and are confident that they will solve those deeper mysteries but the fact is, - they have not. But because of their certainty that the answers are 'just around the corner', they give the impression to the untrained public that there are no real mysteries and most people buy that story because it's too hard grappling with the question themselves.
I think early and modern man have about the same level of challenge in seeing the external clues. Especially since the best ones are internal.
Because the primary clues are internal, God might have made the universe a perfectly seamless thing without those 'cracks' if he was able. But that is apparently an impossible task, given that he had to give us a piece of his own intelligence in order for us to develop into interesting company. Unless he dumbed us down, there was no way to completely hide the fact of creation and therefore, his existence. But as you can see, he did an impressive job of hiding it. A mystery, inside a conundrum, wrapped around an enigma, or something like that. My prediction is they won't ever find the holy grail of nature explaining everything.
About God's actions- You got that one right, plausible deniability is the rule. He is free to break it at times but he chooses never to 'publicly' do it in such a way to constitute 'proof'.
His presence is a tricky one.
FWIW, I once asked him why I felt his presence but so many others did not. The question that came to me was 'How do you know what the absence of my presence feels like?.' I couldn't answer so I asked to be shown that. He did. It came and then went in an instant. No idea how long it lasted, something between 4 minutes and 4 hours I'm guessing, but I would not have survived had it lasted a minute longer. I cannot adequately describe it, there was no physical pain, but it was the darkest experience i can now imagine. I don't mean frightening or threatening, just utter, black, vacuous emptiness. It was litteral
Nothing. I know what clinical depression is, this was something Very different.
So I'm fairly sure that all men feel the presence of God, but like the miraculous universe, you get used to it and it can be ignored or taken as 'just consciousness', (another mystery we don't understand).
That experience also solved another mystery for me. I used to wonder why Jesus would have said 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me' just before he died. I think It was that same kind of experience that made him 'sweat great drops of blood' when contemplating his crucifiction. The physical aspect of it was nothing compared to that emtiness of the lack of God's presence. Why it was necessary for that to happen, I do not know.
And I don't have time right now. But thanks for the explanation.
