14
   

Am i the only one?

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Tue 16 Sep, 2014 11:04 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
One Eyed Mind wrote:
. . . . Patience, Neo. Do you have any?
Of course.
I will now patiently await your proof.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Tue 16 Sep, 2014 11:10 pm
@neologist,
Neo, for the sake of patience, just ask yourself.

Let's say Lucifer is a female.

Temptation is a hint of a female.

Snake is a hint for a female (I'm not sure if you are familiar, but in spiritual practices, the snake is indeed a part of the female).

Burning bush is also a hint of a female.

Let's take "whisper into ears of children" off the table for a moment.

Lucifer's job is to punish the people god sends to her.

Tell me, Neo. Is that not what men did with their women back in those days? They used the woman's tools of seduction and snake-like ability to "poison" the minds of unsuspecting men, lead them back to their man, so the man can do as they wanted to? Hell, "Sirens" are based on this type of woman. So is the "Medusa".
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 05:06 am
@One Eyed Mind,
No.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 06:13 am
@One Eyed Mind,
The easiest way to settle this is to point out that Spirit creatures have no gender. That said, the demons pre-flood were recorded as taking wives for themselves, namely any who they chose (Genesis 6) so these spirit creatures materialised as males.

The Devil is spoken of in male terms on numerous occasions, to list a few
"father" John 8:44
"prince" Mat 12:24 , Eph 2:1,2
"his angels were cast down with him" Rev 12:9
"they have over them a king, the angel of the abyss, his name is abaddon" Rev 9:11
but that is not to say that he never used a females form, merely that there is no scriptural record of him doing so to my knowledge.

In the story of the burning bush, while one of Gods angel is placed at the scene, I have not seen any scriptural data to identify that angel as Lucifer, and after the rebellion in the garden of Eden, it is hard placed in my mind that God would utilise his opposer as part of the reclaiming of a people for his self, the commission he gave Moses in this instance.

I would challenge that the mainstream view of Lucifer as a hell placed punisher is not a scriptural view but rather the birth child of heavy Platonic influence upon the early Christian congregations. Where you find the word hell in your bible, the words Sheol (OT)/Hades (NT), Gehenna and Tartarus have been replaced. the following is taken from the wiki so you can find the references if needed

Quote:
These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized.

Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[28]
Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[29] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.[30]
Tartaro (the verb "throw to Tartarus") occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, where it is parallel to the use of the noun form in 1 Enoch as the place of incarceration of 200 fallen angels. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife.


Was the devil the serpent or did he use the serpent for its particular attributes?

and just for fun...Male figures that are also associated with snakes
Jafar
Jake "the Snake" Roberts
Sir Hiss from Robin Hood
Asmodeus of Redwall
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 09:39 am
@One Eyed Mind,
Now that Smiley has expanded my earlier negative, I should once again remind you that lucifer is not the name of any bible character. It is a descriptive title, much like referring to someone as 'genius' or 'dingbat'. The word lucifer simply means 'shining one'. Kinda like 'bright boy', don't you think?

Once again, patiently awaiting evidence of your learning curve.
MWal
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 12:39 pm
@neologist,
Lucifer is the name of knowledge. This open so many doors for the bible. It makes sense of the fallen angel and original sin in Eden.
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 01:46 pm
@MWal,
Did you test this theory against scripture or is it more a passing thought?
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 02:37 pm
All this fluff about a non person dulls the senses.
0 Replies
 
MWal
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 02:40 pm
@Smileyrius,
It claims a knowledge of good, and a knowledge of evil. The fallen angel.

I believe Satan, the anti-Christ, hate, entered the light. Lucifer is possessed by hate, duh.
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 02:46 pm
@MWal,
MWal wrote:
It claims a knowledge of good, and a knowledge of evil. The fallen angel.
It? Where does it make such a claim?
MWal
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 03:10 pm
@neologist,
Genesis. It's the whole moral to the fall of man.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 03:19 pm
@Smileyrius,
That is interesting Smiley.

Thank you for that. At least someone here has the patience, unlike someone who lives in a matrix - I get it though, a man needs to make due with his bandwidth.

So for the sake of argument, Smiley. Do you have any reason to suggest that Lucifer is a female yourself? Yes or no. If yes, why?

MWal, you can also help with this, as it's a notion that I am ready to let go at any time, but I'd like to challenge it more for now.

@Neo, the entire Bible is a "description" and doesn't "exist" any further than an "allegory". What is your bloody point?
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 04:07 pm
@MWal,
No reference to 'shining one', or 'morning star' or any name resembling 'lucifer' may be found in Genesis. You should realize that the original name of the one we refer to as 'Satan' and 'Devil' is never mentioned in scriptue and may never be known.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 04:14 pm
@neologist,
Neo, there is a "force" that is "against god", which is in the "OT" and the "NT", and if you have noticed, that "force" is "evil" in both, however this "evil" is also "knowledge", so tell us... Even if Lucifer was a man, was Lucifer simply a man with the potential to over throw a tyrant?

Because either Lucifer was a man that was good in the eyes of the Universe, while God was the tyrant that forced people to love him; or Lucifer was God's wife.
0 Replies
 
MWal
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 04:24 pm
@neologist,
Satan is the serpent.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 04:24 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
One Eyed Mind wrote:
. . . @Neo, the entire Bible is a "description" and doesn't "exist" any further than an "allegory". What is your bloody point?
The bible is considerably more than allegory. Your failure to provide any citations or references leads me to question whether you have read any of it.

I would be happy to discourse with you over any topic, providing you would cite authorities other than one eyed conjecture.
MWal
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 04:24 pm
@neologist,
Satan is the serpent who tempted man to do what, know evil.
0 Replies
 
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 04:26 pm
@neologist,
The Bible is not more than allegory - no wonder why you're so bent out of shape about this.

It's a "story", not a "reality". But you live in a matrix, so I don't blame you for getting your bar code mixed up.
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 04:59 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
Then, not only are we not on the same page, we are not in the same library.
Can you explain why you feel comfortable using parts of the bible while excluding others?
One Eyed Mind
 
  0  
Wed 17 Sep, 2014 05:04 pm
@neologist,
The book was based on allegory, hence the poetry and the parables. Reality does not contain poetry and parables - it contains practicality and literal means.
 

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