Understanding existentialism

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

mikeymojo wrote:
... the God that most people worship has no meaning.
Most people worship the god of this world, not the true God.

I'd guess that's because all religions get their source material from earthly books and not hard right in your face evidence. I don't think anyone actually worships a true God by the fact that no true evidence of God has ever been found. It's only in words in books where a God exists, having different meanings to all of it's followers.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Mikeymojo said to me: most of your posts are brilliantly hilarious, with the pictures and all.

Thanks mate, I've been learning how to be funny from Neologist, he's a Jehovah's Witness and they've been making people laugh for years..

Incidentally, Jesus had a lot in common with Klaatu who said- "I'm from another world, let me tell you a few secrets", and got a slug from a .45 for his trouble-

It's definitely paying off LMAO.

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@outofthecave,

Over a period of several years now I've been perusing IRRATIONAL MAN, A Study in Existential Philosophy by William Barrett. Well, I read a few paragraphs in the evening between tv commercials

….But I'm still in the dark

Pun intended

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OK.
Do you derive your essence from the fact that you exist and have free will?

Or, has your essence been determined by a creator who granted you the qualities of love, of justice, of wisdom, and of free will?

Does the former assertion relieve you of obligation to a creator?

Within this lies one of the central issues of the universe. Do you see it?

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@mikeymojo,

mikeymojo wrote:

... to affirm your own question to yourself about another fictional character.

     Prove it ... that Jesus is a fiction, only a fiction and nothing else.
     If you take the efforts to study and to analyse more seriously what He is teaching and preaching, you may find out that:
     1. His teaching is in absolute contradiction with all the usury & money-changing understanding of the world by the time being ... and the present day.
     2. The key words in the Bible are salvation and ethernal life: how can 'a fiction' 4000 years ago come to an enlightenment, which the present-day science hardly starts recognizing.
     3. Salvation from what and ethernal life to whom - these are the key issues?
     4. The Bible, notwithstanding that in its greater part it is mainly cross-cultural misunderstanding caused by the low level of reasoning of the people, conveying the message and interpreting it that has been obviously insufficient to convey the high level of knowledge it is trying to interpret, comprises a brand new level & way of thinking ... and understanding of the world. How could the retards, changing shekels in the shrine, come to the enlightenment to write a book with such 'fiction'?
     5.The bible is a text from another world and this could easily be proved by making semantic analysis of the texts and comparing this study of meaning with everything else that has been written by that time.
     6.The writing of the Bible brings the book 'publishing' (actually re-writing by hand by that time) to the next level.
     7.The Bible is not the original, for its concepts date back to the Book of the Dead and the Tomb of the Visitor in Ancient Egypt? Who is that Visitor, who are we, and what is all that all about? Why should we be concerned, etc.?
     How can a message, delivered 4000 years ago (and even more), predict and envision the problems that we would encounter nowadays - with the population overgrowth and our absolute inability to manage and to use wisely the constrained resources of the planet? How has that happened?

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@Herald,

Herald wrote:

. . . ... that Jesus is a fiction, only a fiction and nothing else.. . . .

You are hardly qualified to make ipse dixit proclamations without citation or explanation.

Herald wrote:

The Bible, notwithstanding that in its greater part it is mainly cross-cultural misunderstanding caused by the low level of reasoning of the people, conveying the message and interpreting it that has been obviously insufficient to convey the high level of knowledge it is trying to interpret, comprises a brand new level & way of thinking ... and understanding of the world. How could the retards, changing shekels in the shrine, come to the enlightenment to write a book with such 'fiction'...

Low level of reasoning?
Retards?
ethernal life? Whatever that is.
Would you like to compare IQs?

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

You are hardly qualified to make ipse dixit proclamations without citation or explanation.

Post No.5,737,297 of R.F.: Jesus said "I'm not from this world, I'll tell you secrets hidden since the world began"
Post No.5,737,342 of Mk.Mj.: Funny that you use Spock, another fictional character, to affirm your own question to yourself about another fictional character.
Obviously Mk.Mj. is speaking about Jesus ... unless you have some other fresh ideas about that interpretation.

Low level of reasoning? Retards?
The ideas underlying the messages of the Bible are narrated in a very confused and incomprehensible way. The so called prophets, who are narrating these texts obviously don't understand what it is all about and nevertheless preserve the general ideas, set in the text, which is an indication that they have much lower IQ than the 'original author' of the text, who I doubt is Jesus. Most probably this text is suggested somehow, by some ILF through some form of communication, moreover almost all of the prophets claim that God is talking to them in direct memory access mode. Jesus himself also does not claim that these thoughts are his own, but rather to God. Why he is calling God his father - I personally have no idea.

ethernal life? Whatever that is.
Yes, what does it mean and to whom it is intended?

Would you like to compare IQs?
Definitely not, thank you, but just asking: what do you expect from such comparison and what do you expect for the reaction of the people around you to be if you prove to have an IQ of 143, for example ... on global scale? Most of the people will start dreaming of how to blackmail you and to exploit you, and in the extreme case of cutting off your head and start exploiting your brain in their own benefit. For further details you can read 'Professor Dowell's Head'.

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Speaking of IQ's, Dawkins is on his third wife, Carl Sagan also got through three, and Stephen Hawkins had two; they may have been highly-qualified scientists but not so hot at making marriages work!
I can just imagine it-
WIFE- "Oh Dicky darling, talk romantic to me!"
DAWKS- "A uniflagellar sperm cell that is motile is referred to as a spermatozoon, whereas a non-motile sperm cell is referred to as a spermatium. Sperm cells cannot divide and have a limited life span, but after fusion with egg cells during fertilization, a new organism begins developing, starting as a totipotent zygote. The human sperm cell is haploid, so that its 23 chromosomes can join the 23 chromosomes of the female egg to form a diploid cell. In mammals, sperm develops in the testicles and is released from the penis"
WIFE- "Oh shut the f*** up!!!"

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@Herald,

I can't prove to you that Jesus is a fictional character, just as you can't prove to me that Jesus isn't a fictional character. Neither of us were around at that time. But after 4000 years or so, if one thing has been proven, it's that the bible hasn't even come close to acheiving it's goal or purpose: to get Man to redeem themselves for their sins. I have a hard time believing God would be so short sighted and just plain stupid to pass His message through written words instead of a more "objective" medium that can't be taken out of context nor disputed by half the world. If God does truly exist I highly doubt war, murder, and all of the other horrible acts that Man has always committed, would be be happening today because the message would've gotten across to us by now. But since God's message is written in words, it has no clear meaning by having many different meanings from the people reading it.

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Quote:

Mikeymojo said: I can't prove to you that Jesus is a fictional character, just as you can't prove to me that Jesus isn't a fictional character.

Think BALANCE OF PROBABILITIES mate.
Weighing all the evidence, the balance of probabilities indicates that Jesus DID exist.. Smile

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If, for practical reasons, I cannot prove or disprove the existence of unicorns on a distant planet does that support or falsify a belief in such animals?

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@JLNobody,

At least it is possible for us to SOMEDAY test that proposition about unicorns on a distant planet. What I object to are propositions that are not testable even in principle--that applies to all notions about the Supernatural.

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The 5 million population of Israel plus the Roman garrison saw Jesus strutting his stuff for 3 long years, so the balance of probabilities indicates that he did exist, and that they weren't lying or hallucinating.. Smile

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@Herald,

I think I owe you at least a partial apology. I accepted mm's post as yours.

It was a mistake easily made in the light of your asseverations about the mental acuity of Bible writers and the putative incomprehensibility of the texts. You apparently have not noticed the symbolic references and the dual fulfillment of many prophecies. Taking two from the book of Daniel, for example:

The prophecy of 7 times had its fulfillment on Nebuchadnezzar and it also refers to the seven times of the gentiles.
The disgusting thing referred to in Daniel 11:31 and Matthew 25:15 had a fulfillment in 67 CE and anticipates a future fulfillment.
And Isaiah:
The capture of Babylon by Cyrus' drying or diverting the 'waters' will have fulfillment with modern day Babylon the Great. Waters often refer to peoples; and the people supporting this Babylon will desert her, thereby drying the 'waters' As to the identity of Babylon the Great, that may also be discovered by researching symbolism.

The Bible, I believe, was inspired by the true God, one of greater intelligence than you or I. As such, I find Jesus'words at Matthew 11:25 and Luke 10:21 of great interest:

Quote:

{Thanking his father for}hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike

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@mikeymojo,

mikeymojo wrote:

But after 4000 years or so, if one thing has been proven, it's that the bible hasn't even come close to acheiving it's goal or purpose: to get Man to redeem themselves for their sins.

Why do you think that the massage of the Bible is personal - addressed to some shepherds and blacksmiths. If it is a massage of God to the human species it should concern us all ... and the redemption will be to the whole human species, rather than to this and that person. What are you complaining - that we are not still wiped out from the Earth? This time is not to far away ... as we are doing.

mikeymojo wrote:

I have a hard time believing God would be so short sighted and just plain stupid to pass His message through written words instead of a more "objective" medium that can't be taken out of context nor disputed by half the world.

It might have been a time-window of possible communication - who knows. Forget about God and the massage - just take a look at the math. How far we will go if we are doing as we are doing at present - digging oil to infinity, pumping CO2, SO2 and NOx into the atmosphere to infinity, throwing Hg batteries wherever it comes, designing GMOs without knowing what we are doing, etc.?

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

You apparently have not noticed the symbolic references and the dual fulfillment of many prophecies.

     This story with the prophecies does not start with the Bible (for further details see Ancient Egypt), and does not end with the Bible (for further details see Chillan Balan ... and also the Octopus Paul about the World Football Championship, not so ago).
     This mass manipulation and brainwashing of the society through prophecies works somehow on our mind, but it has nothing to do with the massage of the Bible. The massage of the Bible is that if we are doing as we are doing, we will turn the planet into Hell and if we use the resources of the planet more wisely we can live in a Paradise ... and can even achieve immortality of the human species.
     This is pure math and nothing else and could be done even by our contemporary calculations and computing power. You don't call prophets the statistical mathematicians and economists and the computer scientists making forecasts, do you? Suppose some ILF has made the calculations for us (to give us more time or whatever) ... the calculations that we are just starting to understand and to make at present and tells us somehow the results of the forecasts - would you call this a prophecy?!

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@neologist,

Quote:

Within this lies one of the central issues of the universe. Do you see it?

We think ourselves free Neo but we are victims of cause and effect

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@Herald,

You can read Rollo May, Victor Frankl, Irvin.. some of the positive existentialists..

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@dalehileman,

you can share your views on Irrational Man...

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@outofthecave,

outofthecave wrote:

You can read Rollo May, Victor Frankl, Irvin.. some of the positive existentialists.

This existential psychotherapy sounds like the Institute of Psychotronics - the guys with the illegal experiments on humans, with the classified clinical reports of junk medications ... the masterminds of destruction of all traces after the classification term expires - is this the 'positive thinking'?

1 Reply

Understanding existentialism

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