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Radar on a Plane

 
 
gollum
 
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 11:12 am
Can radar aboard a plane flying over the ocean detect objects below the ocean's surface?
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Type: Question • Score: 5 • Views: 675 • Replies: 11
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contrex
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 11:33 am
No. The waves are reflected by the surface.
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Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 01:00 pm
@gollum,
I don't know why jet airliners would need to see underwater. However, Air Force and/or Navy jets utilize SONAR to see what is underwater. Radar is designed for air-to-air (or even hi-tech ground penetrating) surveillance.

The physical characteristics of water creates scatter of radar pulses.

Sonar is what was used (side-scan sonar) when looking for the Malaysian jet (Flight 370) that disappeared a few months ago.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 01:10 pm
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:
.However, Air Force and/or Navy jets utilize SONAR to see what is underwater.
Helicopters and fixed wing aircraft use sonobuoys or dipping sonar.
Perhaps US-jets have a different kind of using sonar than this.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 01:20 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
My point was for seeing underwater, the technology best suited is SONAR. And your right, of course: airliners use relayed data from the oceanic buoys that transmit data from their sonar detection.
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contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 01:22 pm
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:
The physical characteristics of water creates scatter of radar pulses.

Especially salty ocean water. In fact seawater absorbs microwave radiation quite strongly.

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Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 01:59 pm
Apart from dropping sonarbuoys to listen for subs, big maritime patrol aircraft are usually fitted with Magnetic Anomaly Detectors (MAD) to pick up metal submarine hulls, but it won't pick up a sub that's too deep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_anomaly_detector
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 02:16 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm pretty sure we do it the same old fashioned way as everybody else.
contrex
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 03:34 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

I'm pretty sure we do it the same old fashioned way as everybody else.

The laws of physics operate the same for US-owned planes as they do for everybody else's.

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 03:46 pm
@contrex,
ASDIC
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 03:53 pm
@contrex,
Well, bummer!
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2014 04:05 pm
@roger,
Quote:
ASDIC was the primary underwater detection device used by Allied escorts throughout the war. The first versions, crude to say the least, were created near the end of World War One and further developed in the following years by the Royal Navy.

How it works

The ASDIC, known to the Americans as Sonar, was basically a transmitter-receiver sending out a highly directional sound wave through the water. If the sound wave struck a submerged object it was reflected back and picked up by the receiver. The length of the time from transmission until the echo was received was used to measure the range, which was shown as a flickering light on the range scale. By mounting the transmitter head so that it could be directed almost like a searchlight, the bearing of the target could be read from the compass receiver.

The transmitter (sound) head extended beneath the ship, and was encased in a large metal done to minimize the noise of the water rushing past the ship while at moderate speed. This dome was filled with water, through which the sound passed, although this water was stationary and acted almost like a bumper. Noise level remained relatively low at moderate speeds, but anything above 18 knots resulted in too much noise and good contacts were difficult to find. The same results also resulted from bad weather when the ships were rolling, pitching and heaving.

The search pattern

During screening operations the ASDIC operator searched through an arc of roughly 45 degrees each side of the base course of the vessel. The ASDIC had to be stopped at regular intervals on this arc long enough to allow the relatively slow underwater sound waves to return should they locate a submerged target. Normally the head would be stopped on a bearing and a sound pulse would be transmitted, which would be heard as a "ping" noise. If no echo was received after several seconds the head would be rotated a few degrees (usually 5) and the process repeated throughout the watch.

If the outgoing impulse stuck a submerged target the echo would be heard as a distinct "beep". If this occurred the ASDIC operator would sound the alarm, feed the range and bearing to the bridge and then immediately start left and right cuts to try to determine the width of the target and trying to see if it was moving from one side to another. He could also determine if the target was closing or opening the range

U boat page
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