cavfancier wrote:Given that this was a hypothetical argument, one must assume that they would choose to act in a moral fashion, as we are assuming that morality is universal. The example does not provide room for 'choice'.
Only if you maintain that it is impossible to choose to act immorally. The hypothetical, however, does not rest upon that premise.
If there is a frame of reference where you can clearly see what 'bringing down the status of humanity in general' is, and this act has some additional properties (when going from one frame of reference into another), you can get something like what entropy is in physics. Then you can see that acts of porn may be increasing some cumulative value 'humiliation' that is increased on every such act.
But let's not forget other questions not directly, but strongly related to this in general sense:
- What exactly is degrading? The act itself, or the result (the porn film/videotape)?
- So, if result is not important, are then the 'deleted' and 'rehearsal' scenes degrading, too? Are -all- sexual acts degrading, then?
- If the result is what matters, is then a porn without an actual 'act' degrading, then? Is a computer animation a degrading thing? What about hypothetical porn - is that degrading too? Is remembering a porn scene degrading? is thinking about a scene to be degrading also?
- What is the question to give 42 as THE answer?
- We are not that smart.
Relative.
I'm a man, and I'd prefer the cash right now, thank you very much.
i think this question is about 'harm', not about degradation.
degradation is subjective, and while i am sure there are people out there who wish to be 'degraded' for reasons stemming from psychological damage, the reality is that with their 'cure' not 'in the wind', gratification from the degradation experience is their form of 'hit', and who a re we to deny them that.
If we can offer a full and complete repair to the psyches of all those who's needs are 'tarnished' by a myriad of life experiences, too complicated to even begin to understand, then some of the 'sensual bandaids' available, and commercially viable, will fall away; until then we must be content to do what we can to protect the vulnerable from the predators who willingly do harm in the process of either serving their own particular 'damaged' needs, or simply for crass economic gain which in this case is probably driven by some version of the former.
joefromchicago wrote:OCCOM BILL wrote:Okay Joe, I got you now. The answer is no.
Why?
Because I see no moral obligation. Since I can't prove a negative, I can't elaborate. Perhaps I'm just immoral.
Is there amoral to this story?
What on earth is going on here? Does any porn queen or prostitute not ask for cash up front? Yeah, they do.
I'm not saying this is for everyone. I am saying that this is a personal decision. Lots of men will keep their cash in their pocket before paying a prostitute, but do you same guys own porn films? Most guys do. Women are paid cash for this, which is exactly what they want.
Who is degrading who here?
OCCOM BILL wrote:Because I see no moral obligation. Since I can't prove a negative, I can't elaborate. Perhaps I'm just immoral.
There's nothing here about
proving a negative,
O'BILL. Either something is a moral obligation or it's not.
Wildflower63 wrote:What on earth is going on here? Does any porn queen or prostitute not ask for cash up front? Yeah, they do.
I'm not saying this is for everyone. I am saying that this is a personal decision. Lots of men will keep their cash in their pocket before paying a prostitute, but do you same guys own porn films? Most guys do. Women are paid cash for this, which is exactly what they want.
Who is degrading who here?
So, how much for a little lovin' Wildflower? Wildflower...that's a hot name...what are you wearing?
You really want to know? My clothing attire depends on my mood. Given the mood of this subject, I have a few items of clothing I find appropriate. It can be anything from pink panties to a leather bitch with a strap on dildo to a** f**k any man. What is is you would like me to wear, perv??
Rent the porno next time, Cavfancier!! You are completely out of line asking a member something insulting as this. You are also assuming women know nothing about sex at all, assuming men dominate us and we are infrerior? Guess what, we are no where as close to the stupididy you must think. Get real and quit being insulting to a woman who does have a clue about sexuality without comdemnation.
Bend over buddy! I can easily screw you, only because you are ignorant enough about a woman's intelligence about sexuality to allow yourself to be. Your problem, don't make it mine!!
I forgot to add this thought. It does not take multiple sex partners to figure out intimacy. It only takes two people of the opposite set, with love and understanding for the needs of their partner to explore sexuality. I have been married 17, very long, years. Since I know you think I must have multiple sex partners to figure out sexuality, you are very wrong. It only takes love, patience, and mutual exploration to make your partner happy is all, not prostitution.
Many men think that 'notches on their belt' make them wiser. How stupid! If you wish for any depth in a serious relationship, you will mutually please your partner in an exclusive, long term relationship, with one person.
I'm a bit sick of the stereotype that women are supposed to be so ignorant about sex, with a long term partner or marriage. Women are not that stupid at all. I am not afraid to say it, which makes you want to think I'm a slut. That only shows your own ignorance. You discover sexual pleasure with one partner, with depth of a relationship, not a series of one night stands. That is reality!
Boomark - I'm at work and don't have time to read, now.
KP
Wildflower63 wrote:You really want to know? My clothing attire depends on my mood. Given the mood of this subject, I have a few items of clothing I find appropriate. It can be anything from pink panties to a leather bitch with a strap on dildo to a** f**k any man. What is is you would like me to wear, perv??
Rent the porno next time, Cavfancier!! You are completely out of line asking a member something insulting as this. You are also assuming women know nothing about sex at all, assuming men dominate us and we are infrerior? Guess what, we are no where as close to the stupididy you must think. Get real and quit being insulting to a woman who does have a clue about sexuality without comdemnation.
Bend over buddy! I can easily screw you, only because you are ignorant enough about a woman's intelligence about sexuality to allow yourself to be. Your problem, don't make it mine!!
My apologies if you took offense to my comments, which were in poor taste, I will agree, but I made absolutely none of the assumptions you mentioned here. Give ME a little more credit than that.
just a little note here in Cav's defence (no not defence - explanitory note):
Cav has a tendency to let his distorted sense of humour 'blurt out' occassionally; i know because i do the same thing.
He means no ill.
We should probably both make more use of the 'delete' button!
I'm glad you've made up. Frankly, the two of you have, among your charms, a delightful willingness (or compulsion) to take chances, not to hide behind a shield of excessive reserve. It IS risky for you, but for the rest of us it's fun.
Well, at least someone gets it, even if wrongly. I take verbal chances and spue gobbledegook. We are all at different places on colliding learning curves here, erudition being one thing, but there are other curves..
I haven't been forgive yet for biting Cav's head off! The fact is, I really don't know members here that well to understand that this was humor. I thought he was calling me a slut with herpes and AIDS!! I was wrong.
I have a wicked sense of humor also. I have offended people with it, with no clue someone would take me that way, just as Cav didn't think I would take his post as sexist and condemning women as sluts. That is how I took it.
I don't know Cav. I don't know that he has a great sense of humor. I felt insulted, as a woman, who will discuss sex openly. I felt this type of comment was not humor, but bashing women for their sexuality, while society accepts multiple sex partners of a man, calling them some hot stud that can satisfy all women. I hate this stereotype.
I misunderstood. I apologize to Cav and members, for my hateful posts. I love a sense of humor, but completely misunderstood. I am so sorry for my horrible words. I love humor also and have gotten myself into hot water over it too many times because people wont lighten up and get real.
I am so sorry Cav. I misunderstood you completely. You wonder why I would accuse you? It is because I don't know you, but have a bit of a clue now. I adore humor and love fun. I regret biting your head off. I didn't know you or your sense of humor, which I share.
Yeah, it was funny. If I took it that way, at the time, you would have gotten a funny PM out of me and we both would have gotten a good laugh. I'm so sorry for this misunderstanding and my insults towards you.
I hope you accept my apology!! I will bug you with PMs, if you don't! lol! Forgive my horrible bashes on your character. I honestly thought you were bashing my character, with male superiority. I was wrong and hope you can forgive me.
