Elliot Rodger

no, hormones would have thoroughly scrambled his brain by 15, but that was not the problem, it was a symptom. I am now fully on board the theory that the main things wrong with this kid were well on their way to developing by the time he was 5.

That doesn't really answer anything Hawkeye. Please read.

1. He was 7 when he dyed his hair so if I was to guess the problems started at 7.

2. He was happy up until 5, I'll give you that.

3. He said "8 years" so that does fit from 15 but, that is if you are talking about being pissed at girls, guys, blondes, blacks, lets' get racist.

This "kid " as you put it researched Mass Murders at 17, rape at 15..

Your brains is scrambled with SEX with hormones not RAPE or MASS MURDER and that is what he commented on... at that age, 15-17.....

Explain that if you will .

did you read the link I posted? It nailed it.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2014/06/10/the-psychology-of-elliot-rodger/

Eventually mom did not want the tyrant she raised around, be she started making him go bad in his first week of life almost certainly.

HOW do prevent someone from being narcissistic? ? I 've never tried that.

ERRATUM:
"HOW do prevent someone from being narcissistic? ? I 've never tried that"

shud have been:

HOW do u prevent someone from being narcissistic? ? I 've never tried that.

What in his chronicle led u to believe
that his mom was inappropriate ?

his saying many times that when he was younger he could count on mom to give him what ever he wanted as soon as was humanly possible. It was she who organized all of his playdates, all the way up to about age 12, at which point mommy acting like her child is 5 started to run thin. Also, he had running battles with stepmom who had no intention of giving him everything he wanted.

No, that link doesn't "nail it"--it's simply that author's take on why so many young men of Rodger's generation have such a strong sense of entitlement.

But it doesn't explain, at all, the sociopathy that caused Rodger to have such diminished morality and empathy that he could wind up killing people without having any qualms about doing that. There is a huge world of difference between being a spoiled brat, or an entitled narcissist, and a cold-blooded murderer. And that author was not simplistically attributing all murders, particularly all mass murders, to overly indulgent parenting, which seems to be the conclusion you have drawn.

The fact that Rodger may have been a special needs child, with an autism spectrum disorder, really does have to be factored into the equation in order to understand him, as well as the kind of parenting he received. It helps to explain, not only his life-long problems with socialization, but his mother's overly-protective and somewhat indulgent responses to a child she instinctively knows is somewhat more fragile when it comes to his coping and adaptive mechanisms. Her responses may have been quite appropriate, given her child's inherent limitations, and her desire to limit the amount of frustration he was consequently exposed to and experienced as a result of his limitations.

I think we have to start from the distinct possibility that this mother was never dealing with a normal child, a child who was born naturally equipped with all of the inherent abilities necessary for social development, and that those inborn deficits she saw in her child were what governed her parenting and parenting style. And, seen in that light, her efforts to structure social experiences for him, and to modify his environment so it would be less frustrating for him, can be seen as quite positive, and reflective of genuine parental concern.

Under the best of circumstances, Elliot Rodger might never have been able to independently function in an adequate manner, something he himself never fully came to terms with, but it was likely an awareness that both his parents lived with all the time. And, as he moved into adolescence, and then young adulthood, and the complexities of social interactions became more and more beyond his grasp, he became more seriously alienated and more of a social misfit, with consequent feelings of frustration and depression and anger that eventually overwhelmed him and contributed to the development of even more maladaptive psychopathology.

Elliot Rodger never understood what he inherently lacked in terms of socialization/communication/emotional abilities, so he latched onto all kinds of external status symbols--being good at skateboarding, wearing designer clothes, having wealth, cars, a beautiful girl by his side etc.--that he thought would help him fit in and gain acceptance with peers. But the lack of these external symbols was never the source of his social difficulties, so acquiring them wouldn't solve anything because the problem, and the social/communication/emotional deficits, were within him. And his obsession with not having a beautiful girlfriend was partly about not being able to get the one thing that couldn't be easily purchased, but even with that, he believed such females could be "purchased" if he attained instant great wealth, so he became frenzied about trying to win a lottery.

People were never really people to Rodger--he never saw other people as human beings with all sorts of emotions and needs and motivations of their own that differed significantly from his own ego-centric perspective, nor did he ever realize the complexity of social interactions that others engaged in because this was too far from his own, extremely limited, personal experience, including his internal experience of social interactions. People either gratified him, or they didn't, and his thinking, and emotional level, never went beyond that. The entire range of human give and take, conflict resolution, and mutuality, completely eluded him, and that is often characteristic of an autism spectrum disorder. It also accounted for his almost total lack of empathy with others.

For the many years he could escape into World of Warcraft, he was able to live in an alternate reality--both the alternate reality of the game, where he could feel a sense of mastery and accomplishment he could never attain in real life, and the alternate reality of online socialization where he found other social misfits who shared his sense of alienation and rejection. And communicating in simple text was far easier for him than the complexities involved in face-to-face social interactions. So, for a long, long period of time, between middle school and his arrival in Santa Barbara, Elliot Rodger had this alternate reality of WOW that allowed him to escape his otherwise frustrating and depressing real life social reality. And that escape hatch may well have served as a safety mechanism to contain his feelings of anger and rage over being socially marginalized and socially overwhelmed. Without that escape hatch, and avenue of relief from despair, he might have become even more seriously suicidal when in his teens.

When the game of WOW itself was no longer sufficiently involving, and when too many "normal" people invaded the game's online community, it no longer provided a safety valve and social haven for Elliot Rodger. At that point, he was already in his third failed attempt at college, this time on his own in Santa Barbara, and he finally realized there was no way he would be able to socially survive and function as an adult in society. His desperate attempts to deal with the reality of the hopelessness he saw for his future now found a far more dangerous outlet in violent and sadistic fantasies of things he might do to real people in the real world--this perversely satisfying fantasy life then became his new alternate reality. And, given the lack of empathy that was always part of his makeup, and the build-up of internal rage that had nowhere else to go, it was a relatively short jump to wanting to actualize those fantasies, particularly when he found support and validation for his misogynist views on some men's sites, and particularly when he found it so easy to acquire guns.

So, whatever maternal indulgence his mother had resorted to, in order to coddle and protect her special needs child, and buffer the world somewhat for him, was clearly no longer sufficient by the time he hit puberty and his social peer world became far more complex, and far more dominated by developmental pressures to conform, challenges that Elliot Rodger was totally unequipped to meet because of inherent deficits in his functioning apparatus. His social functioning was impaired long before that point--even by the age of 5 he tells us he was already aware he didn't fit in with the other boys when playing football--he didn't understand the game, and he didn't play as well as the others did--and by the age of 8 he was sufficiently dissatisfied with who he was to insist that his hair be bleached blond--but, until puberty, he hadn't been confronted, full force, by a complex social environment that he just couldn't deal with, and his parents could no longer shield him from.

Like Elliot Rodger, you are now blaming women, and the most important woman in his life, for his difficulties, and your thinking is no more rational than his was.

There is no denying that Elliot Rodger, a child of privilege, who grew up in a Hollywood environment, and culture, obsessed with materialism as the measure of success, was also a spoiled brat. But that neither explains his murderous rampage, nor does it explain the deficits within him that accounted for his inability to ever function adequately in any social situations that went beyond the merely superficial. To say that he never related well is an understatement. He lacked the ability to even comprehend what social relationships and social interactions were even about. Do you have any idea how profound such an inherent deficit is? No matter what his mother might have done, this particular child would likely never have attained a normal level of adult social functioning--he couldn't successfully navigate any of the earlier periods of psychosocial development--he was never able to function without considerable external support and structure from his parents--and, when cut loose on his own, his inherently impoverished and faulty adaptive mechanisms simply led to the emergence of more and more psychopathology, with sociopathy and nihilism being the end result in his particular case.

The outcome of Elliot Rodger's life was multi-determined by many factors, and by a complex interplay of many factors, so it's impossible to say which one thing might have altered the end result. But the presence of a life-long autism spectrum disorder, does appear to have significantly affected and colored everything else in his world, including how he related to others, and how they responded to him. And no one, with any real understanding of the condition, attributes that disorder, the causes of which are still largely unknown, to any particular parenting style.

You always have a penchant for latching onto simplistic answers to extremely complicated questions. So did Elliot Rodger.

You're forgetting that his Step-Mother entered his life at what, 6? And she certainly did not pamper him, nor did his Father and he stayed 50/50 with his Parents.

You have no idea if she gave him French Toast and he threw it at her, and demanded ice-cream.

You've gone on about spoilt kids all the way through but how many Mass Murders Hawkeye were spoilt kids...........

You can provide link after link but he's a mass murderer so why not try those links and see what you glean.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/20/mass-murderers-unlike-serial-killers-are-hard-to-profile.html





So you theory of him being so spoilt made him this way, doesn't make sense not withstanding that I don't agree that his Mother perhaps gave in too much but it doesn't make sense because it would be the opposite. NOT getting what he wanted, becoming jealous, paranoid.. If he got what he wanted and was a spoilt kid, there is no need to get jealous, paranoid, angry..

He was a social misfit and angry loner, jealous, paranoid had behavioural problems.. Sure he argued with his Step Mother, that's behavioural problems but he got angry at his Mother for not marrying the rich dude and he got angry at his Father for not getting good reviews for OMG and becoming instantly more wealthy... Possibly his Mother's reaction was to give him the BMW, his Father to give him money at College, they knew full well he saw wealth but believed it was to score girls. Yet, how long ago did he decide wealth was important, I'm betting way before girls came along. So you can say "spoilt, see?" .. Excepting for the most part of his life, he wasn't... And, like I said, at 15 he believed Japanese women deserved to be raped by the Army... which became his dream of all women, only instead, they were to be in the same sphere but starved to death instead.

A boy who is so hungry for sex, decides to starve the women, not rape them...

A boy dyes his hair not for fun like your son, but because he wants to stand out, look white, he was bullied, picked on... He became the one who bullied the past 2 years via the Internet and that made him more angry, so angry and enraged especially as he had linked his parents to how he was writing and at this stage, he changed his name to Elliot Rodger why? To make sure they knew it was him? And what do they do? They ignore it.

Spoilt children get an instant phone call, or they rock up at his apartment or they do something "awe Elliot" but they did nothing.

He wasn't spoilt "only" in a lot of cases he wasn't spoilt at all. He had some riches due to his Parents and Step-Mother's connections but he hated celebrities where other kids would get excited, he just saw it as another power up his sleeve .

Celebrities angered him... That has nothing to do with being spoilt.

How do you know they ignored it?

They may have read it, but simply not told their son they did that.

And one of his reasons for wanting them to see the PUAHate site may have been to try to convince them he was correct in his hostility toward women, since he had found others who shared such views on that site, and also to show his parents they had been wrong in telling him to be a nice guy, and a gentleman, because that didn't help to attract women.

Of course, Elliot didn't ever interact with female peers, even in casual conversation, so how he treated them was rather moot, and, in actually, he hadn't been rejected, as much as he was simply ignored, mainly because he wasn't initiating any social contact, and had never initiated social contacts with female peers . And his parents were well aware of these facts, so why should they have wanted to get into any discussion about what was posted on those sites? They already knew he was angry and unhappy, he let them know that constantly, and they also knew that he was blaming females for his own social difficulties relating to anyone, so it wasn't something they really could rationally discuss with him.

So I don't see where we should come to the conclusion they ignored those links--there's not much about him they seem to have ignored. They may have discussed those links with one of his therapists, allegedly he was seeing two of them, one near the college and one near his home, and followed the therapist's advice about how to deal with it. He was also seeing counselors they might have spoken to. And they also had him briefly see a psychiatrist 2 years ago. They enlisted the aid of a number of people in trying to address their son's difficulties, and to try provide him with needed supports, both social and psychological.

What none of those people, including his parents, could have known was the degree to which he had begun acting out--spilling drinks on people, squirting other students in the park with a super-soaker filled with orange juice, and finally, when he got drunk enough to actually try to attend a party, his attempts to push females off a 10 ft. balcony--those were the true indications he was becoming dangerous, because his control over his anger was clearly failing, and he couldn't behave appropriately even in public places. The counselor did advise him not to go back to college after the party incident, which resulted in his being beaten up and getting his ankle broken, but even the counselor likely did not know the truth of what happened that night, he heard only Elliot's fabricated account. And, by this point, Elliot was determined to return to school, because he had already begun to hatch plans for his Day of Retribution, and he needed to be back in Santa Barbara to complete his preparations and carry out his plan.

But he really should never have gone away to school in Santa Barbara in the first place, not after he couldn't function taking just a few courses at 2 other colleges, even while living at home. And that was after it took moves between 3 high schools before he was emotionally able to stay put long enough to finally graduate from the last one, a special school for troubled adolescents. He had no capacity to deal with social stress, or to adequately handle social situations, that was abundantly clear, and the last place he should have been was on a college campus, unsupervised and left to his own devices. This was the one time Elliot Rodger should definitely not have gotten his own way. While no one likely expected such a disastrous outcome, there was no way this experience could have been anything except a crushing failure for him, given his significant social inadequacies, his emotional instability, and his lack of focus on any actual academic coursework.

Who knows how much Elliot actually shared with his therapists, other than possibly his chronic feelings of depression and anger. It is unlikely he told them of his violent and sadistic fantasies, let alone his actual plans to seek some sort of revenge. He had always been extremely withdrawn and minimally verbal, in any face to face situations, and now he had things he wanted to conceal, from everyone, including parents and therapists.

He mentioned one of his therapists by name, Dr. Randy Gold. It's not clear when he last saw that therapist. I looked up Dr. Gold, who seems to be a quite reputable psychologist, and one who seems well suited to treat someone like Elliot Rodger. He's also the author of a book, "The Feelings Box," which got excellent reviews on Amazon.
http://www.randyandmichellegold.com/index.shtml

I think Elliot Rodger was a spoiled brat, not because he necessarily got so much materially, but mainly because he failed to appreciate what he did get, and because he was such a social class snob, and considered so many other, less privileged people, and so many opportunities open to him, "beneath him". His future wasn't entirely hopeless and bleak, there were useful jobs he could have gotten and functioned at, that would have allowed him to function as a productive member of society, but, lacking a college degree, and specific talents, he likely would have regarded the available range of choices as "beneath him".

His desire for a prestigious or higher status job was in the same category as his wanting "a beautiful hot girl" by his side--what he wanted in his life was not in sync with reality when it came to his actual psychosocial ability to earn, attain, maintain, and compete for such things, and that was his main source of frustration. The only way of resolving that sort of dilemma is to modify what you want, and alter your goals, so they are considerably more modest, but likely more attainable, at least as a starting point. But Elliot Rodger wasn't capable of that sort of humility, or flexibility, or reality-based thinking, which is how his exaggerated sense of entitlement doomed him to set himself up for failure.

The world was not essentially "unjust" to Elliot Rodger--he was unjust to himself by continually trying to measure up to self-imposed standards that were way beyond his ability to attain. He created and maintained his own constant state of feeling frustrated and deprived--by the values and priorities he chose--no one else did that to him--and, in the end, he did not demonstrate his power and superiority, he showed the world just how severely damaged he was, and just how twisted his inner world had become.

I am looking forward to his father's interview with Barbara Walters. I think we need some external appraisal of Elliot Rodger, beside his own subjective, one-sided view of himself and his world.

Double meaning You're right, that more than likely actually would have been his reasoning behind it, he was heck bent on being bought up to be the nice guy. He'd lost respect for his Father, he dis-liked his Step-Mother and he thought that his Mother should have bought him the BMW much earlier than she did....

If I am to take Elliot's wording they ignored it. Then they didn't speak to him so they did ignore it.. What ever their reasons and thought pattern was would be interesting if they delve into that into the interview. Perhaps they thought that was the best solution... Perhaps they didn't see the bigger picture. I've provided countless quotes from him that would honestly disturb me as a Mother.

They knew he wouldn't take the medication nor could they make him, he was an Adult. They knew that it was suggested that he move out from there but he chose not to, they couldn't make him. I imagine that they would have been at their wits end, in the end. But, they did ignore what he wrote, I wouldn't. That's a nutter in the making and I would want to do something.

Perhaps that is when his Mother stepped in, in the end. Perhaps she actually saw more than his Father and Step Mother did, after all she rang the Police, she thought he was either suicidal or going to kill someone. She saw it. She read it. She saw the site. She saw his You-Tubes, she reacted.



Yes he did, his favourite counsellor was a female but unfortunately, she moved on, he was then left with male counsellors around his age which he didn't mind talking to.

Firefly I do 100% agree that there was no way that they would know what he was planning. That they conversed between each other and did everything that they could do, that he would allow them to do. I can see the tough love verses the non tough love. I can see the pulling between both parents. They possibly also saw an attention seeker .

But, I believe his Mother was more aware of his thought pattern than anyone else and sub-consciously she knew that he was capable of "something" .

Then I go back to the age... 15, 17, rape is ok.. Surely he showed sighs as a "kid" that needed more than the medical attention he received.

Parents are human off course I don't blame them, this is bigger than that, he had severe problems mentally that escalated and something triggered and that was it, he "planned", he was 17 when he viewed the previous mass murder. His Grandfather was known for seeing the camps.. Every bit of information he gathered throughout his life he used in the manifesto. He twisted it all into evil. He was evil...

I was quite interested in the stats of the link of Mass Murders..

He was "controlled" more so at his Fathers, spoilt more so at his Mothers but none of it meant anything, nothing was good enough, no one was good enough and yet, he wasn't good enough for anyone.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/02/28/why-are-men-angry-manning-up-author-kay-hymowitz-explains.html

Kay S. Hymowitz is the William E. Simon Fellow at the Manhattan Institute and a contributing editor of City Journal. She writes extensively on childhood, family issues, poverty, and cultural change in America

Seems a wee bit too close for comfort to what Elliot Rodger said.

Let's assume that Elliot was Autistic. Some of the most intelligent people of this World, were/are autistic.

He would have read up on what women like and he would have seen all that you just wrote and I can't deny that we as youngsters are in-deed like that. I recall my youth. "Even in bed".. Confidence and charisma gets the girls every time BUT there is a catch, here's the switch They also want love, to be loved and to love back... The key ingredient that all humans want, including Elliot.

Let's face it hawkeye, girls are seduced by these " cool guys" that they want for the most part due to their charisma, confidence, cock sure attitude, though they may see the bad boy they think they can tame them, call them theirs but ultimately they want exactly what Elliot wanted in that. Love.

To me the 'nice guy' is the part we all missed, the "love" not used, but love and the bad guy was the charisma and charm and character and confidence that every woman wants. Let's face it, isn't that also what a guy likes? But he finds it's un-attainable she has to be a snob or won't want me, or is money hungry... A guy doesn't like the nerdy girl with glasses, nerdy clothes he wants the hot chick.

See where it's a double wammy?

This is not shooting my horn. But, at the age that Elliot is talking about I can visualise. I was that tall blonde model. I wasn't after money or riches from a guy but love. But, I wouldn't go out with someone who didn't work, have a job, even part time, he had to have passion and ambition. Elliot refused to work up to 22... Even the nice car wouldn't have cut it for me, I'd see "spoilt brat"... So I would have steered clear. So his views on blondes wanting the best body, football player, etc was only in my opinion of the "blondes" that were bought up to aim high... So they were spoilt? You can bet your bottom dollar they were, or else, their Mother didn't get what she wanted and guided them to go for the kill.

A "normal" girl is bought up as he was, respect, people are good, watch out for the bad guys, be careful, marry a bricklayer be a receptionist. Regardless of what she looks like.

I don't believe the "normal girl" even knows here beauty until late teens as she's not bought up to see it, it presents itself and then she becomes aware.

Up-bringing in my opinion plays a very big part in how any person develops themselves and how they see the world.

****.... You said he was spoilt and it was all to do with his up-bringing

But Elliot had a bigger problem than his up-bringing he lived in a world of fantasy, he took everything he was told, learnt, seen and he made his own world of that, his own private world...

Perhaps he did that because his social functioning in the real world was so limited by his autism spectrum disorder. But, in his fantasy world, he could try to maintain an image of himself as superior, despite the fact that this self-image was in direct conflict with reality. He had no genuine self-confidence, he had no particular gifts, or talents, or outstanding abilities, yet all his life, he nurtured and harbored a quite unrealistic sense of his superiority to others.

I'm not sure that what he wanted was love--or that he even understood the emotion of love or really ever felt bonded to another person, even his parents. His parents served mainly to satisfy his needs.

Other than anger, and jealousy, and depression, which are reactive emotions, mainly to frustration, he really didn't reveal any capacity for love, or for the ability to empathize with the emotions of others. He was really an emotionally shallow/hollow observer of all the other people in his life. He was clueless about what made other people tick, or what made relationships work, or why people even sought relationships. Getting "a tall beautiful girl" was like acquiring another status object--like his Gucci sunglasses, or his BMW--things he felt would give him the appearance of normalcy and success in the eyes of others.

I think that what he wanted, most of all, was to be normal--and the older he got, particularly past puberty, the more obvious it was to him that he was far from normal, that he'd never be normal, and that he'd never have the sort of life he felt everyone else enjoyed. And that sent him into such a rage, he decided to prove his superiority by his capacity to kill, rather than go on living as a failure.

I think Elliot's views of women were largely fictional--he had no relationships, of any sort, with female peers--his views were based on no actual experiences with female contemporaries.

There were 3 females who were a continuing part of his life. His mother was the "good one" because she satisfied his needs. His step-mother was the "bad one" because she made demands, rather than just satisfying his needs. And the 3rd one was his sister, about whom Elliot tells us next to nothing, which is somewhat curious. And, lurking on the periphery, were his two grandmothers, who he also saw as being doting and satisfying his needs.

I don't think he had any longing for a real loving relationship with a female peer--he wanted someone to be a mother-substitute for him--he wanted to be able to feed from a breast without having to give anything back in return--I really think he was that infantile in his level of emotional development.

I also don't think he was a "nice guy" at all. Where is there any evidence that he was ever kind, or thoughtful, or considerate of anyone? He had too much envy, jealousy, and anger simmering inside of him, for most of his life, to ever be genuinely nice, and he was too ego-centric to actually be nice. He superficially behaved himself, but even that thin veneer vanished, first with his step-mother, then with his nastiness toward other online posters, then when he took to actually spilling drinks on people, squirting other students with a super-soaker filled with orange juice, etc. His "nice guy" self-image, like his alleged superiority, was largely a myth he created for himself.

He also didn't really get along much better with males than he did with females. Once past adolescence, and the shared interest in World of Warcraft he had with them, he felt less connected to his few childhood friends and was often in more conflicts with them. He rejected efforts by others to engage him, both in high school and college, and he had problems with all of the roommates he shared his college apartment with.

Elliot's written manifesto and his YouTube videos are somewhat misleading as to what he was like, and how he appeared to other people. He was far more able to communicate in written text than he could in face-to-face conversation. He was also able to appear far more self-assured and verbal in his video "performances" than he could manage in real life situations--I think it was his mother who said his YouTube persona was "unrecognizable" from the way he normally appeared. So, we have to remember, these things, like the manifesto and the videos, do not reflect the Elliot Rodger the world saw most of the time.

He wasn't just a shy or awkward young man. I think we have to keep in mind just how profound his social disabilities were--he was extremely withdrawn, anxious, minimally verbal, and had difficulty maintaining eye contact with others. He did not exhibit a normal range of expression, and he may well have had difficulty correctly interpreting other people's social cues like body language, facial expressions, vocal inflections, etc. And, most importantly, he really had no interest in other people, or in wanting to get to know them better.

There was no reason under the sun that females would have wanted to pay any attention to him, since he likely gave off rather creepy vibes, and the few males who tried to be friendly toward him, either found him disengaged or off-putting. Even his old childhood friends found his self-pitying excesses difficult to take when they tried to include him in their outings. He was far from pleasant to be around in practically all situations.

So, I don't agree that Elliot Rodger was looking for love, or that he even appreciated the love he did get from his family. I don't think he was capable of feeling true love for anyone. He liked the fact that his young half-brother adored him and looked up to him, but the thought that the child would grow up to be more normal than he was, and function more effectively than he could, filled him with such a jealous narcissistic rage, that he could easily plan to cold-bloodedly murder the boy when he went on his killing spree.

I do think he wanted to be normal--or at least superficially appear to be normal--and I don't think that was ever possible for him. He really did inherently lack the psychological and emotional apparatus necessary for normalcy.

Not all Autistic people live in a fantasy world.. They in my opinion are smarter and do take everything in. They do live in a private world but they understand praise, they understand to a degree love, mostly they understand praise. And thrive on it.

A lot of what you wrote I agree with.

Autistic people "understand love".. I agree his parents to him served mainly to satisfy his needs so this is a guy that demands ..

This is from a guy who has Asperger's and has done a lot of home work. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/my-life-aspergers/201212/asperger-s-autism-and-mass-murder



I'm standing by the fact that Elliot wanted love.

Here's another thing. If you view that link and any other, it's clear that Bullying is what seems to be the icing on the cake, the thing that manifests.

At 9 years of age Elliot was given assistance from his parents, yet one of those parents BULLIED him till the end, his step-mother.

She took away his Father. Something I think you are missing. She took away that guy that he was proud of for finding a woman so fast, "affair I am sure" and I am sure Elliot worked that out.

She was the one who told Elliot her son, will lose his virginity at a young age and become someone, she took him, Elliot to the edge.

If you even look at the photo of him and her and his Father at a Premier her look at him is embarrassment, disgust. It's evident to me, it's not a look of " are you ok? "

Elliot had emotions so much so he hated her.

If she had not entered his life, perhaps he would have been a bit different.



It's stated that his parents did not read all of his manifesto if they did, they would have realised that he planned to kill her, his step-mother and then her child.

Was his Father in the end a wimp? He agreed to everything the "new woman" stated regarding his son. Did he see his Father as a wimp, could it be the real reason Elliot broke was over them.

Could it be the real love he wanted was from his Father and step-mother and Mother, as a total.

He may use the blondes.

As you stated, strange that neither his Mother or Step-Mother were.

His last straw may very well have been what his Step-Mother stated about her son.... HER son...was going to be so much better than him and have sex. What women would do that and why haven't you broached that, don't you think that's important? Putting a child down brings out anger if done over and over and over again.... Perhaps we need to look into his words of how he felt about her.. I think the key lies there.

But without a doubt, she bullied him, put him down, told him her son would be greater, better. Assuming that was stated actually by her. In his mind, if this occurred and the consistency of this, he couldn't take people to that home, her home.... His own Father just agreed to what ever she said, he'd lost him, his Mother gave him everything big deal not enough... he wanted love.

Sorry FF. This kid didn't get it.

I think he triggered as a result and used the fantasy .

I never said by the way he was a "nice guy" I was explaining my opinion of the difference of nice guys verses bad guys to Hawkeye...

I see evil.

I see pain.

I see someone who truly believed in the end he wasn't loved.

I see someone who then searched for it, maybe he even looked at his Father, he had money in the end, enough anyway and he scored a woman within weeks of separation from his "wife" at that point he say money as the way to do it or in the end.

But Elliot had a bigger problem than his up-bringing, he took everything he learn't.. seen, and made his own world of that, as he had a mental decease and I think he did have Aspergers.

My Nephew is sweet, loving...

There is a trigger with all murderers and it stems from hate, pure hate.

I'd guess he hated his Step-Mother for all she said and did and it snowballed. I'd guess he hated his Father for never being the "man".

I'd guess that he had mental issues and was bullied before that and I'm still questioning if he was abused in those woods which made him dye his hair and I'm guessing he didn't tell us the full extent of his bullying. And, I am guessing he had, that evil streak, spoilt, didn't think he was good enough, saw himself as Asian but wanted to be white and I'm guessing the bullying caused all of that and the step mother added so much to this, so much that he tipped the edge.

spell errors don't have time, you get that.

That may be true for most people with autism spectrum disorders, but not necessarily all of them. I don't think it was true of the Virginia Tech killer, or the Sandy Hook killer, or for Elliot Rodger-all of whom were believed to suffer from some form of autism.

I'm basing Elliot Rodger's "lack of feeling" for others, and his inability to empathize with others, on what he himself revealed about himself in his manifesto. I saw no indications that he actually loved anyone, including his parents. I saw no indications he had any understanding of what love involves, including the ability to put the importance of another's needs and well being at least on a par with your own, if you love them. I saw no indications he wanted to be able to give and express love, to anyone. I saw no indications he understood the range of emotions that other people experience.

So, I'm not making a general comment about people who are autistic, I'm making a comment that's specific to Elliot Rodger.

He was quite capable of experiencing anger, rage, frustration, jealousy, envy, and despair--all in reaction to whether his needs were gratified or not. What he didn't seem capable of was experiencing genuine love toward anyone. And I don't think he understood what others experienced when they felt love. I saw no genuine concern or feeling for anyone--not his family, nor his old childhood friends--expressed by him anywhere in his manifesto.

And he tells us quite clearly in his manifesto that envy and jealousy dominated his life. And I think what he envied most was normalcy.

I doubt that his step-mother was intentionally as brutalizing as Elliot chose to see her, or as his limited capacity for empathy forced him to see her. She was his rival for his father in his mind, but Elliot never realized that was because his father loved her. He admired his father's ability to "get a woman" so soon after his divorce, but not his father's capacity to love another woman so soon after a marriage breakup. And I think that's because the entire concept of love eluded him. Similarly, he couldn't understand his mother's resistance to being a gold-digger, and her refusal to marry a wealthy man just to make him happy, by elevating his lifestyle under such an arrangement. Love as the basis for commitments and relationships really wasn't part of his thinking.

His step-mother was more demanding of him, and he resented that. She initially demanded he stop secluding himself in his room so he could play World of Warcraft for hours on end. Was she entirely wrong to do that? I don't think so, but this wasn't the sort of indulgent treatment he got from his mother, so he resented his step-mother for establishing different rules in her house. He also refused to accord her any real respect, or legitimate parental authority, because, "She's not my mother." And he deliberately provoked her by not entering her house in a proper manner, which caused her to really blow up. A lot of her behavior, that Elliot saw as being overly mean or harsh, was in direct response to the way he was acting, and treating her, something he entirely failed to see. He had no capacity to view himself with any sort of objectivity--he had no idea of how his behavior and manner affected the people around him and caused them to react to him the way they did. I think that was particularly the case with his step-mother.

I don't disagree with that.

But I think the trigger in Elliot Rodger's case was what occurred when he finally got drunk enough to actually try to attend a college party--something he did as a last effort to become part of the world of "sex and pleasure" he thought everyone else on campus enjoyed. And this was the one and only party of peers he ever attended. And it turned into a disastrous experience because of the way he acted. He became irrationally enraged that females weren't paying attention to him, and he tried to shove some of them off a balcony. By the end of the episode, he sustained a broken ankle trying to escape from men at the party who were angered by his attempt to injure the women, and a group at a next door house had beaten him up and called him homosexual slurs.

That was the trigger that made him decide, "I want to kill them all." He wanted them to pay for what he saw as his final humiliation, but it was his own actions that provoked what happened to him. He really couldn't function in either a socially adequate, or socially acceptable manner, and those other people let him know that, and he took that as a crushing blow to any hope of normalcy, and he was determined to make them pay for that by killing them, out of jealousy and envy and pure spite.

I don't see him as wanting "real love" that he never got. I really think he was too emotionally infantile to have any concept of real love. He wanted to fit in, to be normal, but he seems to have had little idea of the deficits within himself that prevented that. He was so concrete and limited in his awareness, he thought that wearing the right designer clothes, or designer sunglasses, should have been some sort of magic wand in achieving the illusion of normalcy and social adequacy. Nowhere in his manifesto does he display any insight into the fact that he suffered from Asperger's, and/or other mental health issues, that were the source of his difficulties, or any understanding of why psychiatrists, and psychologists, and counselors, were even a part of his life.

I tend to see him less sympathetically than you do, and the fact he killed 6 people, and wounded others, diminishes my sympathy even more.

There 'd be no need for concern
about that, if u spelled FONETICALLY.

the problem is, david, YOU DONT. you spell idiosyncratically, which is worse than the system we have now, since we know how that works, but the only one who knows how your "system" works is you, which makes communication extremely difficult. For example, phonetically "u", which you use as "you" is actually pronounced "oo". When you use it you're using it logographically, not phonetically. Similarly, using "cud" as "could" doesn't work because "cud" is what cows rechew grass with, and now You've got a conflict with bud, dud, and mud among others, none of which have the vowel sound of "could". In toher words, you're an unmitigated mess. Don't try to foist it on us. At the very least, do a LOT of rethinking in the interest of logical consistency, which is sadly lacking now. And I know how you value logic. Why not practice it, for a change?

I 'm showing faster n easier ways to spell.
Kids learn to pronounce by word recognition in school.
That shud be changed, as a matter of policy, to serve
the interests of simplicity, ease and efficiency.

I will surely NOT be the final authority
on exactly how to spell. Eventually,
some fonetic lexicografers will write a new dictionary.

U quoted "system"
without telling us the source of that quote.