glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 10:23 am
Elliot exhibited depraved indifference regarding the lives of others.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 10:30 am
@glitterbag,
YES. Even worse: he showed malice,
as he was murdering them.
0 Replies
 
Buttermilk
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 02:11 pm
@BillRM,
From 1619 show me from that time white women didnt benefit from slavery and was persecuted because you cant.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 02:34 pm
@Buttermilk,
Quote:
From 1619 show me from that time white women didnt benefit from slavery and was persecuted because you cant.


Slaves was very very expense both to purchase and to maintain so only the top few percents of the population men and women got any benefits from slavery.

In fact the lower class lost out in employment opportunities as there was many very skill slaves who did tasks such as master carpenters and black smith work and so on.

Not all whites male or females and even in the south came ahead due to slavery.

Now for example when Jefferson wife pass away and he turn to her slave half sister for companionship some unknown white lady of high standing loss out on being the second wife of Jefferson.

Having large numbers of black women who could not say no to their owners I am fairly sure did not made too many white women happy either.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 04:03 pm
@luismtzzz,
Borderline, Narassistic, & I believe there is certainly some components of Affluenza, whether approved or not approved that he had.


Quote:
Elliot by the other hand never shows a single sign of preoccupation about acquiring wealth or having more money.


He sure did actually.

Quote:
On that same night, I looked at the Powerball again, and saw that the jackpot had risen to over $100 million.
Quote:
This prompted me to drive to Arizona again, in another desperate attempt to become instantly wealthy
so that I could attract beautiful girls and live the life I want. After all of the rejection

and mistreatment I’ve experienced at the hands of women, I knew that becoming wealthy was the only

way I could become worthy of them, and
Quote:
so my obsession with becoming wealthy at a young age came back
in full force for the first few months of 2013.


I do agree having read up a bit that Affluenza, that "all" spoilt brats have used it.

But, then. In my opinion, Elliot was a spoilt brat too, at least by his Mother.

Affluenza, as I read it places too high a value on money, possessions, appearances and fame. The enthusiastic adoption of the fantasy of happiness bought by wealth.

Elliot himself states in his Manifesto that he was obsessed as a child in becoming wealth and that, the last two years of his life, he again became obsessed with becoming wealthy. He also acquired new clothes, felt the BMW meant he would be seen as wealthy.. The Lottery tickets he "put out there into the Universe" believing 100% that he was going to win. It was when that didn't occur that he reverted to the retribution.

So in my opinion I am not denying he has disorders at all. But, whether this is recognized or not, he has the traits as well of Affluenza.
Buttermilk
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 04:56 pm
@BillRM,
This is an anecdote I want objective proof. If what you say is true back this up.
0 Replies
 
luismtzzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 05:08 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Narcissitic personality disorder is not related to delusional tougths. Neither to violence or crimes.

Borderline personality disorder is commonly found in crimminals. And is associated to delusions, and tendency to develop other psychiatry diseases. Are prone to violence, and can´t accept failure nor rejection.

Affluenza, although fancy, lacks still the characterization of a well defined disease. On the reviews i had been reading it is not associated to delusion, neither to criminal intent. But it is related only to dangerous behavior, like that brat from Texas. How should be rotting in jail.

His principal motifs for the killing rampage where the fullfillment of his sexual desire, his feelings of superiority, and his altered vision of reality. The wealth for him was a media but never lookes as a goal. As affluenza seems to be estructured over.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 05:32 pm
@luismtzzz,

Dr. Luis,

It appears that Peter Rodger was guilty
of neglect
and child abuse by failure to have taken his son to a bordello.
Presumably, if he had, then these young victims
wud have remained INTACT.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 06:09 pm
@luismtzzz,
Do you think it is possible, given he has a few traits what 5 you believe of Borderline personality disorder, that he can still have 1 or 2 traits of other mental illnesses? Does it have to be diagnosed as (1) only?

Affluenza is also related to the will and desire of wealth, to be obsessive over it, he claims that he was. Spoilt brat he was too and I agree, the brat from Texas should rot in jail.

But, his decision to do it, came after he lost the lottery not once, but twice which he believe would be his answer, wealth. But, agree, also on the last ditch attempt a year ago in going out, socialising and expecting to score that night, only he got drunk and created a fight instead and as a result was injured. Not only a fight, but an intent to harm which is where you describe one instance of his Borderline personality.

I believe the wealth for him was what he believed he had to have, in order to attract a "blonde", not a girl but a blonde. After all, he couldn't understand why he couldn't, he, drove, a, BMW and had $300 glasses.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 06:11 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
If Peter Elliot was not a Doctor specialising in mental illness, if his Doctors were greedy and did not diagnose him properly or suggested a "pill" that may or may not have worked had he had taken them, how can he be guilty of child abuse? I believe you may mean neglect in any event.

Peter Elliot may be guilty of concentrating on his career more than his son however, it's evident he sent him to various Doctors, 3 at one time at the same time, it's evident he was trying to help his son, perhaps he was ill-informed from those Doctors who just took the money.

In any event, I imagine Peter Elliot is going through enough pain at present, not just of his son but what his son did and all those grieving parents.

OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 06:54 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
FOUND SOUL wrote:
If Peter Elliot was not a Doctor specialising in mental illness,
if his Doctors were greedy and did not diagnose him properly
or suggested a "pill" that may or may not have worked had he had
taken them, how can he be guilty of child abuse?
He was guilty of child abuse
by his failure to have taken Elliot to get relief at a bordello.
From his autobiografy, we know that he told both of his parents
how he was freaking out, beyond his limits of toleration,
because of absence of sexual relief (blonde girl). IF Peter had gotten him the said blonde girl,
then presumably, his relief wud have ultimated in no murders in Isla Vista; that wud have been better.

FOUND SOUL wrote:
I believe you may mean neglect in any event.
In my post, I said both child abuse and neglect.


FOUND SOUL wrote:
Peter Elliot may be guilty of concentrating on his career more than his son however,
it's evident he sent him to various Doctors, 3 at one time at the same time,
it's evident he was trying to help his son,
Not enuf to get his son to a bordello.
That is the reason that the murders happened.

boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 07:29 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I disagree.

I don't think sex would have "cured" him.

He wanted a trophy -- someone he could show off to others.

An escort (on a very regular basis (like, daily)) might have delayed things but when he realized she didn't worship him (and wouldn't accompany him for free) he would have still blown up (in my opinion).
Finn dAbuzz
 
  4  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 07:55 pm
@boomerang,
Sex wasn't going to cure him. He didn't just need to get laid.

Nothing was going to "cure" him but a combination of therapy and medication might have set him along a different path and prevented this tragedy.
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 08:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Sex wasn't going to cure him.


True. But it would've de-mystified it for him.

When I was a virgin I remember having a lot of ideas about sex that ended up being very inaccurate. I think it takes a lot of steam out of it when you realize what sex is REALLY like (especially once you've been in a relationship for long enough to realize that it sometimes even becomes boring.) I don't think sex would've cured him, but it's easy to understand how not having had it ever could be built up in his head as a crushing thing. Some sort of "evidence" of his feelings of being treated as less than human. I also believe this sort of thinking ONLY affects young men (or older men too I guess; the 40 year old virgin maybe?). Young women simply have the opportunity readily available to them whenever they choose to have sex.

It's this inequality in society that I believe causes women (particularly YOUNGER women) to have a MUCH lower capacity for empathy in regards to understanding the alienation of feeling unwanted. Women simply live their lives with an understood value to themselves. I believe that's also a big part of why during divorces women tend to "bounce back" much sooner and more successfully than men do.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 08:30 pm
I don't think science/medicine has reached the point where we can adequately identify, care for, treat, define let alone cure people who can dehumanize and destroy other humans or living creatures simply on a whim. I hope at some time, if indeed it's possible, to treat these people much like we correct faulty vision or treat diabetics.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 09:20 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
I don't think sex would have "cured" him.

He wanted a trophy -- someone he could show off to others.

An escort (on a very regular basis (like, daily)) might have delayed things but when he realized she didn't worship him (and wouldn't accompany him for free) he would have still blown up (in my opinion).


One of the "counselors" his parents had spend time with him was a young woman named Sasha, who was a year older than he was. This was actually a good idea. It allowed him to spend time just talking to, and going places with, a female contemporary--something he had never done before. He needed that social experience, and he apparently enjoyed it. And he felt more "normal" in public places by being seen with a female. But, when Sasha had to move on, he didn't want to replace her with another female counselor. He said it was too much like a paid friendship, and that was like being with a prostitute.

So I agree, just having sex, including with a prostitute, wouldn't have helped him, and it wasn't what he wanted, and he likely rejected the idea of losing his virginity with a prostitute.

You're right, he wanted to be adored, loved, wanted by women--but, only tall beautiful hot blond women, because those were the most valued trophies. He wanted that trophy by his side to prove his worth, mainly to other men. Women were symbols to him--just like the expensive designer clothes he bought himself were status symbols of affluence. He felt entitled to a life of luxury and opulence, just like he felt entitled to the most beautiful white women. He judged others, and himself, in very superficial materialistic terms, and possession of wealth, and the right status symbols, including the right women =power for him. And without those things, a man was worthless and insignificant, and without hot blond beauty, a woman had low market value in his mind, and was therefore insignificant to him.

So he didn't want a girlfriend to have a real relationship with--he wanted beautiful hot blond female eye candy standing next to him, and she would service all of his sexual needs and adore him. He wanted a fantasy conquest--and he refused to consider anything that might have been in the realm of reality or possibility.

This wasn't just about wanting to have sex and lose his virginity, and a paid sexual experience wouldn't have satisfied all the other needs he attached to, and associated with, the whole idea of having a tall beautiful hot blond girlfriend. He was in a frustrated rage because his idealized fantasies weren't being gratified.



OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 09:30 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
I disagree.

I don't think sex would have "cured" him.

He wanted a trophy -- someone he could show off to others.

An escort (on a very regular basis (like, daily)) might have delayed things
but when he realized she didn't worship him (and wouldn't accompany him for free)
he would have still blown up (in my opinion).
I recognize the merit in your position, boomer,
but still: given the choice of giving Elliot NO blonde, on the one hand (as it actually was)
or
giving him one, and satisfying his desperation,
the interests of safety and of mercy for Elliot wud have been served.

If he began to freak out again, then those problems
cud have been handled. No good came from keeping him AWAY from brothels, except saving a few dollars.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 09:57 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
He would not have been content with visits to a brothel, he seemed to crave worship. I doubt any of us are equipped to diagnose his problems, he destroyed many families in whatever his quest was about. I think we trivialize humanity by blaming any isms for his brutal rampage against humanity.

It really doesn't matter if Pol Pot or Idi Amin were narcissists, it matters that they engaged in slaughter. Any attempt to give Rodgers an excuse for his actions, diminishes his apologists. Anybody? Sound familiar?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 10:42 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
I think you're on the right track with affluenza, Foundy, but Elliot went way beyond that.

He had a BMW, a more expensive car than many college men have, but he dreamed of winning the lottery and driving onto the campus in a Lamborghini, because that was more impressive. Nothing he did have was ever quite satisfying enough. He was always jealous of anyone who had more.

He never felt he had enough of anything he desired, he was like a bottomless pit of envy--particularly when it came to great wealth and the lifestyle that can buy. And growing up in Hollywood, he was exposed to that kind of opulent lifestyle, and he could enjoy a taste of it, and a glimpse of it, and it very much shaped his values and his sense of entitlement.

He wanted his mother to marry a very wealthy man she had been dating, not for her happiness because she loved the man, but because of the lifestyle it would afford him if she married that man and his money--and he considered her selfish when she didn't do that. He wanted his mother to be a gold-digger--for his sake--and he was angry when she didn't accommodate him.

And having a hot beautiful blond girlfriend was viewed as a form of social wealth by him--a valuable trophy and a conquest to show off to establish his status with other men. In his mind beautiful hot blond women were like material possessions. And, he only wanted the top-of-the-line in terms of his possessions and surroundings. He really didn't see these hot beautiful blonds as people--they were commodities to satisfy and gratify his needs and fantasies and establish his status in the world. Not much different than his several hundred dollar Armani sweaters.

He was constantly in a state of envy about one thing or another. That led to frustration, that to depression, and then that led to rage about the injustice done to him by such deprivation. There was a reality basis for his feeling that he didn't fit in socially, that he couldn't compete socially, and that he couldn't cope emotionally, and it really led to profound despair and hopelessness about his entire future. And his parents shared those concerns about his future and whether he would be able to function as an independent adult.

Someone else going through that sort of despair might just commit suicide. And, while he thought about that, he was ambivalent about it, he feared death, he really didn't want to die. So, he'd latch onto things--like the fantasy of winning the lottery and gaining instant great wealth--to keep a spark of hope going that his life would improve, that he'd get the things he wanted. When he became fixated with revenge fantasies, he could see his death in the context of a victory rather than a defeat. And, when he realized it might be possible to actualize his revenge fantasies, and he bought his first gun, that gave him a real sense of power, and brought about a shift in his thinking that was his final undoing. Being able to acquire a gun made a real emotional difference for him--it made his fantasies possible.

Reading the last portion of his manifesto was like watching him psychologically paint himself into a corner, a smaller and smaller corner, until he finally trapped himself into needing to carry out his Day of Retribution to prove to himself and the world he wasn't an unmanly coward--he eliminated all other options for himself until the only one left was to demonstrate the depth of his rage and despair--and power--by killing as many people as possible. And even he couldn't believe he had come to that level of actual ruthlessness, it was somewhat surreal, even to him. He had to kept re-hashing the injustices being done to him in his mind, and he had to keep dehumanizing his intended victims, in order to keep his rage-fueled motivation to actually kill going. The heady power of being able to kill became more appealing, and stronger, than any moral prohibitions about doing it. Suicide now wouldn't be a sign of his defeat as a man--it was simply the price he'd have to pay for his killing spree, because he didn't want to go to prison.

Can you imagine boiling down your final choices in life to, either I win the lottery, when it's over $100 million, or I'll be forced to commit mass murder and suicide--because there are no other options to make life tolerable?

He really was a spoiled brat. He couldn't deal with frustration. His killing spree was his final temper tantrum over not getting what he wanted.
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 10:55 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
and without hot blond beauty, a woman had low market value in his mind, and was therefore insignificant to him.


I think you're partially right that he wished to be seen with a good looking woman to assert his "status", but I bet you anything that if he would've been banged properly (even once) by (even a non-blonde) lady who knew how to make things fun, that it would've altered his views at least a TINY bit. Perhaps that tiny bit would've made SOME difference. I'm just saying...
 

 
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